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Communism v Nazism

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dachuda86, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Why is Nazism, and its flag, so reviled while Communism and the Hammer and Sickle are allowed to openly breath in our society without so much as an ounce of the same stigma. Both flags and movements are reprehensible and represent some of the darkest chapters of the human story. They led to millions of deaths and have been used as blunt political instruments to seize power and oppress the freedoms of people. So why is it that Communism is allowed a pass? Why does the right distance itself from Nazism, since you all suppose it's far right, and that's the commonly agreed upon line that's too far, but on the left there is no boundary, no end, as to what constitutes far left. Why are these people allowed to lock arms, rank and file, with other people on the left. Why does the left today not have a border and clear idea of what too far left is?
     
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  2. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    you don't have to
     
  3. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Why is there no line for what constitutes far left? Why does the media never mention it, but commonly refers to the far right? Where is the line for what constitutes far left?
     
  4. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    LOL you crying because you want to openly and proudly embrace this?

    National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsiɪzəm, ˈnæt-/),[1] is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party—officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP)—in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar ideas and aims. Nazism is a form of fascism,[2][3][4][5] with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and the use of eugenics into its creed. Its extreme nationalism originated in Pan-Germanism and the ethno-nationalist völkisch movement prominent in the German nationalism of the time, and it was strongly influenced by the Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged after Germany's defeat in World War I, from which came the party's underlying "cult of violence".[6] Nazism subscribed to pseudo-scientific theories of racial hierarchy[7] and Social Darwinism, identifying the Germans as a part of what the Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race.[8]
     
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  5. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    I know it's natural for you to call people a nazi who you don't agree with, but I bring Nazism up, in a negative light mind you, to make my point about communism. I actually want the left to draw a line and stop embracing communism as the right does not embrace nazism. The right seems to have a clear grasp of what's too far, and rightfully stigmatizes those people and banishes them, but the left lacks this ability to draw a line with what's too far left for some reason. That's the point of my post... where is the line. For you, what's the line for too far left?
     
  6. calcium

    calcium Member

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    Would communism be more of a economic system as opposed to a political system? More akin to capitalism. For example, I don't think China is not communist in its core cos there is no redistribution of wealth happening.

    In fact, it can be argued it is more capitalist than many countries.
     
  7. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Both are ideologies. Where is this line? What is too far for the left?

    ALSO to say communist is more capitalist is contradictions according to your own interpretation and the definitions of these ideological models. So I don't think I follow you on that. But to stay on point, regardless of how true or false your last statement is, where is the line for the left?
     
  8. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    I would like for some of the leftists, or those on the right, to share their thoughts on what the far left is and what's too far? Anyone have an idea where that line is?
     
  9. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Leftists avoid this thread because they have no idea where the edge of the cliff is and lack the basic concepts of what far left and far right actually are. Honestly not shocked they can't pin point what is far left and draw a line.
     
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  10. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

    C
    ommunism killed about a hundred millions people worldwide. Communists are better at fooling people than Nazis. When you hear a communist talks, it sounds attractive at first, but when the onion layers are peeling back, the rot and stench can literally and figuratively killing you.
    Interesting that both deadly ideologies came out of one country.
     
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  11. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    You can easily call him a communist but I know you won’t go there.
     
  12. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    i will call people who dress like nazis, parade like nazis, wave nazi flags and chant "jews will not replace us" nazis.

    president trump calls them "very fine people".

    as for the hammer and sickle, anyone flying that flag in america is an an idiot. but i find it ironic that trump supporters would be opposed to it since yall are so much in love with all things putin. trump stood in front of the entire world at helskinki and sided with putin over our own government. trump repeatedly praises authoritarian thugs all over the world while fighting and name-calling with our long-standing democratic allies.

    you guys clearly want trump to be a putin-like authoritarian.

    also, the free world has known that nationalism is bad since WWII. we have rejected it...but then trump comes along and says "im a nationalist" and yall LOVE IT!
     
    #12 jo mama, Jul 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  13. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Nazi kill people for the fun of it.

    Communist try to help all people but is a flawed idea that end up killing people.

    Don’t confuse democratic socialism (Eu) or welfare socialism (the us) as communism
     
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  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    In your world everything left of the right wing crazy is far left. That's the problem. You've lost all perspective. Protests are far left, taxes are far left, health care insurance is far left, opposing the confederacy is far left, regulations are far left, environmentalism is far left, social security and medicare are far left, abortion rights are far left, voting rights are far left, anti-racism is far left, immigration is far left, public educations are far left, gun background checks are far left, etc. Republicans have continued to push far right from where they were just since Reagan so even the old middle ground is far left to them. Plus, you think marxism, communism, and socialism are all the same things. You lump them all together because having an education is far left now.
     
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  15. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    i dont understand this comment....communists did not try to help all people. what about stalin and mao, who each killed more people than hitler? the purges, the collectivization of farms, deliberate starvation of their own citizens (mostly rural peasants), brutal crackdowns on dissenters, murder of millions of their own citizens.
     
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  16. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Well for starters one believes in a supreme white race. It’s followers today are white nationalist.
     
  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I think the point he's trying to make....or the point I'm trying to make...

    Is that communism at its core is an economic ideology. Behind that there are no classes and everyone is on equal footing. The problem with Communism is that it is impossible to achieve I'd say. You can't make everyone happy as resources are finite.

    Nazism ideology is built on superiority and eugenics.

    @dachuda86

    that is your answer. Nazism is an ideal built on genocide. That enough makes it a toxic ideology.
     
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  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Because then the conversation has to be "What does FAR LEFT" mean? And then you look at the policies and you then have to have a commentator make a case that:

    "OMG... Free Health Care for EVERYONE paid by taxes instead of deductions in our paychecks... AHHHHH!!!! Run for the Hills!!!!"

    It's a case that only watchers of Fox so-called-News would be paranoid and ignorant enough to actually listen to. High Levels of Socialism in government just isn't that outrageous and sexy. Many countries are far Socialist and they are just fine with it.

    You know what does drive news cycles and get people worked up???... Gas chambers, assassinations in broad daylight, brutality on display, religious extremism, and some fat autocratic leader yelling fascist tropes at level 10 so the world thinks he's a tough guy dictator.

    Daschuda... we have this conversation OVER and OVER and OVER again with you and you just don't get it. Far Left, Far Right, Socialism, Democracy, Communism, etc. etc..... The behavior of the Leadership within the framework of a governing system is what matters and what classify what is GOOD vs what is BAD. I can call myself a member of the Party of Mother Theresa but if I'm cutting off heads in the street while in leadership... people will probably assume that's bad, and will make people want to think twice about wanting to join to Party Of Mother Theresa.

    Yes... governing systems matter as a framework for institutions to protect against bad leadership behavior which is why I support Democracy as the current best framework which is what basically every Democrat in America supports. Some want more Socialism and that's fine to discuss, and look at changes. Some want more autocratic changes and that is what it is, but it's very short sited at the current moment because that desire currently from people like you is coming from a place of just wanting more and more power.

    I know what you want to do here though... You are trolling to create a narrative that there's somehow a mirror image of Trump on the Democratic side. That's just not the case right now and you know it which is why you have to stretch so bad, and try so hard to troll people into having the worlds most ignorant conversation ever to try and conflate governing systems with leadership behavior.
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    The best history lesson everyone know can learn is that the Nazi party was given power because coming out of the civil and economic anxiety of WW1 in Germany, the German Business Community/Oligarchs feared the civil unrest was helping the Liberal party start to gain too much power with the ANTIFA movements happening in Europe that was elevating political change, and so they made the decision to back the Strongman in Germany as a candidate to create a more powerful police presence with less road blocks to policing as a way to tamp down change in the economic situation.

    This is why the conversation around policing and the USA is so incredibly important. Look back at history, and this is sooo important.

    Fear of more "Socialism" if you want to call it that, led to Germany turning to Hitler and the Nazi party FIRST for domestic policing.

    Nazism and MAGA are too different movements and political parties to certain extent, but it's important to know that they came into power mostly because of the same elements in economic and civil unrest that led to the Business Community thinking they had someone they could control, and it turned out to wreck the country in the long run.

    Thankfully we have Democratic institutions that can hopefully keep someone like Trump in check in the way that early 1900's Germany could not do with Hilter. The ruling yesterday with the Supreme Court was a monumental success in the preservation of our Democracy in the long run. A classic Communist system and some European Socialist systems might not have the levers that we are fortunate enough to have in their cases if their electorate were dumb enough to vote for someone like Trump.

    The framers got alot wrong, but they got a whole hell of alot right too and we should thank them for that.
     
  20. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean that the hammer and sickle can "openly breathe" in our society - if you think communism isn't stigmatized in the USA I don't know what to tell you. Of course it is.

    If your complaint is that communism isn't as heavily stigmatized at this current moment as Nazism is, it could be because Nazism or neo-nazism are very unfortunately topical now. The march in Charlottesville did not have hundreds of men with torches waving the red flag with hammer and sickle. The numerous race-inspired mass shootings in our country were not committed by men who frequent websites to discuss Soviet communism. Violent white supremacy is resurgent; the narratives of the 'purity' of the country and the elimination of 'outsiders' are part of the national discourse.

    Serious discussion of the elimination of markets and state control of all means of production aren't even on the radar. It's not a topic.

    Maybe, since our president admires the current dictator of the former Soviet Union, and is buddy-buddy with the leader North Korea, the most disgusting, murderous regime of any kind (but which happens to be communist) currently in the world, maybe people are desensitized?

    I truly have absolutely no idea why you think it gets a pass. When Bernie earlier this year said that maybe Castro actually did once do one good program (children's education? I forget) he was shredded. Communism is untouchable in this country and if Bernie was the nominee the photos and videos of him in Cuba/Soviet Union would have sunk him.

    The contemporary right uses different approaches to this. Many simply say that that Nazis and fascism is in fact far left, therefore no distancing is needed. This has been brought up and debated on the board more times than I can count, because "nazi" is, after all, short for "Nationalsozialismus".

    Others use false equivalence to insist that Antifa is not only just as bad, but actually worse than Nazis. Or one might equate by saying "there are perfectly good people on both sides".

    Who agrees? If someone could anonymously post here in the D&D a thread entitled "We all agree: Nazism is too far right" that post would get shredded by the conservatives here who would insist that is has nothing to do with the right.

    I don't see the American right bothering much to distance itself from Nazism because they don't see themselves anywhere near it, and the left sees itself nowhere near communism. But if anyone on the right feels some pressure to distance themselves from Nazism, I welcome it.

    Where are you getting that from? The actual spectrum of economic right vs. left goes very far in each direction. There's tons of stuff way further left than the oh-so-scary single payer healthcare being discussed, (which is now already a dead topic because Biden is the candidate.) Elimination of commerce, elimination of all differences in wealth, elimination of all private business, these are all utterly untouchable and no one on the american left wants these things.

    Seriously: who is locking arms? Who are the commies amongst us that the lefties are so accepting of?
     
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