lol you're generalizing. I love how actually sitting down and hammering out what we think about things is labeling. I just want to know where people stand and to demonstrate how you and others are incapable of drawing a line about what is too extreme. I think you and some of the other responses have demonstrated that nicely.
Yeah today's "conservatives" are literally fighting to conserve liberal values. Insane isn't it? Welcome to the new age. But this is all there is to do when the other side refuses to set a limit and goes off the deep end into insane far left authoritarian land. I love how you are laughing at the idea "we can't be afraid to discuss ideas." If you want to own that, go ahead. You don't like the idea of discussing ideas. Got it. So why are you here? Trolling I guess. That does basically describe the position of most of you on here who are moaning because you don't want to admit you're radicals with no idea of what is extreme. Ya'll are unwilling to go there and use terms and "labels", or just words as normal people cal them, and instead attack me. With labels.
Ahhhhh far left conspiracy theories. Got it. So why did the FBI fail to find anything of value? hmmm oh because it's bullshit.
Nothing wrong being a leftist. Esp. the hard working part and sharing the wealth, albeit in a sensible manner.
No today's conservatives (at least in America) are actively fighting against your interest at every corner. Cutting environmental regulations to make our air and water quality worse, cutting education so our children are less educated, cutting food assistance so poor are hungrier, cutting healthcare so we are sicker. They are anti-science, sabotaging our nations in regard to our two major crises in climate change and COVID. They are holding this country's development back by decades. You've been duped by YouTubers to fight against you, your family, your friends, and essentially all working-class Americans interest/quality of life. if you ever realize that, you will feel how incredibly sad that is. You have to understand Dachuda, Tim Pool is a ****ing idiot, Shapiro is an idiot, Dave Rubin is an idiot, Crowder is an idiot, and whoever else you're getting you god awful political views from are clearly pushing anti-working class "ideas" made by think tanks that are manufactured to trick people into voting against their own interest.
Ohhh you're mad but it's true. I don't blindly follow pundits btw. But I do like Tim Pool. Real liberal. Not a LINO (liberal in name only) Today's conservatives are actually a mix of people. You have conservative right, and then you have moderates who were abandoned by the DNC's radical left push and now we are stuck with the "conservatives" because the far left is pushing everyone out. The left eats its own and where do you think they end up? We will vote for Trump btw, as punishment. Not because we like him. Our collective middle finger is coming in November.
I agree. I think anyone feeling good about being on the left should be wary of their own eating them. Fair warning. But no nothing wrong with being left, in the same way there is nothing wrong with being on the right. In a sensible manner. But what is a sensible manner? Many haven't a clue other than their feelings about it and would prefer not to have to put it down into words (labels). This is largely the theme of the thread: Rational debate versus impetuous emotional outburst.
I'm mad ? You know what is true, everything I posted that you unsurprising completely ignored. You say you support improving education and expanding healthcare, you say you aren't antiscience and understand climate change. But you'd vote against all of that? Because you have no choice but to vote for Trump as a middle finger to yourself? Because you couldn't vote for extreme far-left radical communist Joe Biden? Doesn't that sound incredibly stupid? You clearly do blindly follow "pundits" in an extreme fashion, it really shows in your post over the years, the fact that I can post the first picture that comes up when googling "classical liberal meme" and it fits you like a tailor-made glove should really say something to you. Tim Pool is not a liberal he's a super obvious grifter who's gimmick is pretending to be on the left while purely attacking the left, which is what you are doing. He's genuinely a really embarrassing person to admit you're a fan of. I'm not sure what could do it, but I hope you have a RocketsLegend like epiphany one day. You are constantly regurgitating unbelievably awful political takes from your YouTubers. You should legit message RL sometime maybe whatever flipped the switch for him could work for you.
Attacking me isn't going to help you get to the point where you understand your underpinnings. You speak about hot button issues, like someone who gets their political education from Time magazine or Newsweek. There are deeper considerations at play and the fact that you rely on hot button issues shows me you're a puppet and you want others to think, or not think more so, like you. No thanks. Maybe one day you'll cut your strings, but until then you really don't have anything of value to add to this thread I can see. You're unwilling to engage and instead just attack attack attack. You are part of the problem.
sorry to chime in here, but I’m curious... Which liberal values are you taking about that today “conservative” are literally fighting to conserve? And by “conservative”, do you mean those that support trump? Or the never-trumper camp of “conservative”.
Well if you look at liberal, in its actual sense, it's actual meaning, it means someone who supports liberality, which is in the word family of liberty. Now specifically they like things like free markets, which the left is largely opposed to. Some conservatives are actually in favor of this, while some aren't. Liberals, real ones, also support maximizing the rights of people and limiting the role of government in the process because there is an inherent tyranny that develops. Many conservatives are actually liberal in nature actually, and many on the left are as well. Now when we look at the word liberal today, it has come to mean to some the opposite of the word conserve. Which they construe as change. They want to change things, and conservatives want things to stay the same. When people on the left are calling themselves liberals and wanting to change things, they are co opting the word liberal when really they want nothing of the sort when you examine their ideological underpinnings. Many adopt heavily authoritarian ideas. Real liberals, are actually trying to conserve our liberal society and way of governance. They are then called "conservatives" for this. I think the concept of liberal and conservative is a bad way to think if you aren't aware that they are not actually opposites. They can be if liberals are all on the left, but with the way things are going many have gone to the "right" in order to "conserve" liberal society. Meanwhile people go on saying they are "liberal" because they think it only means to be pro change. A lot of progressives co-opt the term because they want to change things, but in their views change should be an authoritarian society that eschews freedoms in many ways. So in short, you have to understand conservative and liberal are not actually opposite terms. They were that way for a time in our specific political theater, but take what liberalism is and make those the opposites, and you don't actually get conservatism. Because of course, they are not exact antonyms.
I’m going to summarize the values you are referring to. free market Individual rights Small government Anti-authoritarian Is that correct ?
punishment? What are you talking about? Think about how nuts you sound lol you were doing a decent job bringing up a red scare 60 years later.. Next was ready for you to tell about your studebaker and gal named norma jean. 130,000 or so corona dead, locked up in quarantine for 5 months, wife lost her job ( she made more than me Im not emasculated but proud of her btw) millions unemployed. I saw a sign driving that made me laugh said "keep America great" I looked at her and said " umm have you looked around ?!?" Isnt that enough punishment? you realize takes like this make you look really dumb when you attack the next democrat in office. When a policy doesnt go your way we can call it punishment? Lol reminds me of my father in law and you can read the last page but it doesn't end well. I can't really do doner kebab from home you are punishing me with yogurt with no tang ..the one I make isnt the same. I even tried bulgarian yogurt and it wasnt that tang. Cmon nero put down the violin and get it together. You are better than this. * i think *
Lol so says the guy posting all through the night about communism? you are getting stranger by the second i love it
The next time you present a post this long without paragraphs I’m not going to read it. It’s bad enough that you are posting bizarre nonsense. I’m simply not going to waste my time reading that nonsense from you if you can’t attempt to make your posts somewhat readable.
Thanks again for taking the time to write your response. I'll try to keep this short because we already kind of know the points where we disagree, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just dialogue, and again I don't mind disagreeing when it's done in a respectful manner. Wow. Okay, now I finally understand why you created the thread. I don't now what to say, other than I've never, ever, ever seen a USSR flag at any rally or protest, live or televised, ever. You've started a thread based on your anecdotal experience but I think your experience isn't shared my many others. I believe you that you saw what you saw, but as a liberal myself with hundreds of liberal friends, I have never ever seen anything of the kind, in person or digitally. I think you're coming close to answering your own question. (Not the question "what is too far left", but the question "why is communism tolerated more than nazism?") If we think people support something that will eventually lead to something murderous and disastrous, but they are naive or misinformed and have good intentions, it's harder for us to angrily take a stand against them and shout them down. There is no credible naivety for a Nazi. Communism in every state that has tried it so far began with good intentions and lead to mass murder; Nazism openly promotes violence and murder as a goal from the inception. Not unlike the Confederate States of America when they separated from the Union, its founding document was based on racial superiority and the the God-given 'right' to subjugate another race. It's pretty fascinating and awesome how much we agree on the fundamentals. I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH!!! I think culturally, we unconsciously believe that the left and right "own" certain topics, and are politicians given leeway on that topic depending on their political identity. Conservatives "own" ideas of military engagement, defense, and terrorism. A republican could suggest cutting the military budget and he'd get pushback, but his intentions to protect the nation wouldn't be questioned. A democrat does the same thing and he is accused of wanting the nation to be attacked. Liberals "own" the issues of racism and sexism, and though democrats of course do racist and sexist stuff, their intentions (fair or not) are assumed to be good and they slipped up; but if a republican does something sexist or racist, democrats portray them as having bad intentions, period. As for MAGA hats, they are a hat with a campaign slogan bro.... People shouldn’t be attacked for their beliefs.[/quote] I definitely vehemently am against Americans being assaulted for wearing a hat. That's not what I mean by my "feet to the fire" comment. I'll do research and consider this. From the reading I've done democratic socialism includes support of a free market but with a stronger regulatory framework where the common good is the first priority instead of profit. On the other hand, some say that "social democrats" are closer to this. Regardless, countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany are fantastic places to live because of how their governments (and their capitalist free markets) are operated. They are all doing this democracy thing better than we are. 'social democrat' vs 'democratic socialist' are still confusing terms. How about "Compassionate Capitalist?" You really don't have to respond, I think we're so far from the thread topic now anyway, and it takes me so long to type these things. Cheers.
