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The price of being different-Ohio transgender teen's suicide note: 'Fix society. Please.'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015.

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  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    The most striking numbers I've seen in quite a while, and one of the saddest stories I've read. Wanted to share this for discussion.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-transgender-teen-suicide-conversion-therapy

    If you're transgender, you are 10x more likely to want to kill yourself. Sobering food for thought on the true price of being different.

     
    #1 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  2. rudan

    rudan Member

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    Not surprised, always saw them as mentally ill. They need help, not acceptance.
     
    #2 rudan, Jan 11, 2015
  3. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    The only acceptable application of the theory that "God doesn't make mistakes" is that you accept whatever crosses your path.
     
    #3 giddyup, Jan 11, 2015
  4. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    What does "help" mean for you--and why is acceptance (no bullying, no sexual/physical violence, no discrimination on the job, doctors accepting to do their jobs) not "help"?
     
    #4 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  5. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    I'm not sure I would respond to suicide attempts with anything other than psychotherapy. Individual emotional health is attained through different channels than economic or political empowerment.
     
    #5 Dairy Ashford, Jan 11, 2015
  6. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    that's fine, but the reason why there are so many more suicide attempts for those who are transgender seems to be because life is in many ways relatively rougher--for political and economic reasons, yes, but also for cultural and religious ones.

    This is no country for different people, and sadly, in many ways, it is the closest thing to normalcy for them among all the nations in the world. Is it acceptable for human beings to receive stigmatization and abuse for no reason, and for them to kill themselves for it?
     
    #6 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Gender dysphoria is an unfortunate disorder and all too often if not treated properly it results in depression and even suicide. It's too bad that he didn't get the help he needed before he spiraled out of control, but that's not society's fault.
     
    #7 Bobbythegreat, Jan 11, 2015
  8. downbytheriver

    downbytheriver Member

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    So.. do Transgenders want to have sex with people of th e same sex, but dressed as someone of the opposite sex? Or are there are any.. say.. girls who want to dress as guys and date guys? Why want a penis if you want to be had by men?
     
    #8 downbytheriver, Jan 11, 2015
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Usually they want to become the opposite gender and have sex with the same gender, but there are rare cases where they want to become the opposite gender and still have sex with the opposite gender, or both genders. Also, it's not so much they want to be the opposite gender as it is they think they really are the other gender....they just have the wrong parts.

    It's all pretty tragic and just like pretty much any personality disorder, there's not really any way to "cure" it, because it's just how people are.
     
    #9 Bobbythegreat, Jan 11, 2015
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Theory falls apart when older white men have the highest suicide rate in the country.
     
    #10 Bandwagoner, Jan 11, 2015
  11. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    society will never be fixed unless it's a society of non-humans or super advanced humans that resemble nothing close to us.
     
    #11 ipaman, Jan 11, 2015
  12. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    well, it is in this instance.

     
    #12 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  13. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    I thought the study said transgenders had like a 46% suicide attempt rate.
     
    #13 Dairy Ashford, Jan 11, 2015
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    That's a tragedy of its own but it is not as simple as you claim it is: for example, women actually attempt suicide more, but because men are more likely to use weapons, men are more successful at suicide.

    Of course, that ignores reporting bias from males told to conform and etc.--all signs of a society that represses differences.

    What would help alleviate this can be boiled down into many factors--some cultural, some religious, some economic, some political, but one that figures prominently in this example is one simple, clear problem: don't have too many weapons laying around.

    The treatment of LGBT youth strikes a similar clear tone on what is happening from all of the complexity.

    http://ontario.cmha.ca/mental-health/lesbian-gay-bisexual-trans-people-and-mental-health/

    Don't abuse people who are different.
     
    #14 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  15. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Research hasn't caught up with LGBT elders, because well, sexual orientation just wasn't a thing that was tracked.

    Now that that discourse is open, we're beginning to see the true damage being wrought.

    http://www.durhamregion.com/opinion-story/4247834-suicide-rates-highest-among-lgbt-youth/
     
    #15 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    You are trying to make some connection of being oppressed and suicide where the actual underlying cause is depression. Men are less likely to express their feelings and a "suicide attempt" is the ultimate "I need help" signal. I know a girl who took 5 aspirin as a suicide attempt and a guy who put a Glock to his head. Only one of them actually wanted to die. Your note about weapons doesn't help Robin Williams or the feelium suicides.
     
    #16 Bandwagoner, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    1- And the underlying cause of depression is?

    (answer: a complex mix of ingredients, none of them helped by workplace abuse, social stigma, parental rejection, and physical/sexual trauma)

    So now, with your line of argumentation, would you care to venture that you know why 8 times more LGBT youth are depressed?

    2-Anecdotal evidence. Your certitude about causality (the underlying cause) based on your presented evidence rests on much shakier ground then my note about correlation. That could change if you presented better evidence, but as it stands, I'm not sure why you're attacking this topic heads-on with little more than appeals to anecdotal but yes, troubling situations.
     
    #17 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
  18. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    That's a mentally ill suicidal person blaming their problems on others. They didn't make him kill himself by taking away his access to twitter or facebook or by sending him to therapists he didn't approve of. He killed himself and it's no one else's fault but his own.
     
    #18 Bobbythegreat, Jan 11, 2015
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    old rich white guys have it tough
     
    #19 Bandwagoner, Jan 11, 2015
  20. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    She killed herself because of this.

    http://time.com/3655718/leelah-alcorn-suicide-transgender-therapy/

    Leelah Alcorn’s Suicide: Conversion Therapy Is Child Abuse

    "Therapists she didn't approve of."
     
    #20 Northside Storm, Jan 11, 2015
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