[The Ringer] Kevin O'Connor Mad At Harden, Thinks MDA Sucks At His Job

The difference is, Kobe was used as a Robin, and we're trying to use Harden as a Batman.

 

Maybe all these people say it for a reason? I'm not saying it's a grand solution, but it is a counter to what the Lakers are doing right now. The other option is to keep doing it and watch the Lakers continue to force us to take bad shots, have turnovers, and look like a garbage team.

Also, posting up is fine, it's the post up player that makes the difference. IDGAF what analytics say, please don't pull them out, teams have been winning championships with low post play since the dawn of time.

Posting up Dwight was bad because he was a terrible decision maker with no post moves. Postin up Hakeem/Yao was good because they were the exact opposite. I don't know how efficient Harden is posting up, he hasn't really done it enough to say, but Jordan and Kobe posted up a lot and used it well...but we do need more variety, we can't keep throwing the defense the same look and then expect it to break down. Not a Lebron James led defense, they're going to be too smart for that. I've never been on the post up James more because I don't know if he has that in his bag to do it enough for it to matter. Russ 100% should be post up more, he actually has post moves and he's bigger than like 98% of the guards he goes against.

Russ isn't playing well because of several reasons, not all of them his fault, a lot of them are. He was an all-nba player the last 3-4 years? That means he's been one of the best guards in the NBA during that time. He had bigs that could roll, he had a team built around his style of play. Russ needs that here to thrive. We need a lot more athletic players for him to play with basically, to encourage his pace and style of play. Like I said, he should have went to Miami.

But you know, he's also not playing well because he's making bad decisions. I'm not defending him and I don't make excuses for any player. It does feel like people give him ZERO excuses. People have been hating on him even when they KNOW he's playing hurt, but will trot out a list of excuses for CP3 or some other player they like.

The guy went from a team built around him to another guy that has to work off Harden. Of course he's going to be out of sync and out of rhythm. Then we have him standing behind the three point line, of course he's going to fail. This isn't even counting the mental part of basketball that a lot of Rocket fans just completely ignore I feel in favor of analytics. That you can lower a guys overall confidence and he's going to play worse because of it.

I guess we'll see what the team will do. Either they are going to bounce back tonight because of a few changes or they are going to go into the offseason and force some major changes.

 

They say it because they think Dantoni is totally overlooking it or its some sort of counter when really they'll just be sticking to Harden more and forcing more turnovers which will kill us cause WE HAVE NO BIG because of Westbrook. I'd rather have other adjustments. Like dude's taking their open 3s and not driving.

We've seen posting up work one or two times with Harden and think its a good idea, and maybe can do it a little more but the fact it, James will just turn it over as well because he's not use to it, you can get away with it 2-3 times per game and itll be okay but that's it, its not consistent offense. Russ at this point should try it though, though I doubt his passing will be much better. But its better than him driving and fumbling the ball.

And those all led to first round exits, check his playoff stats they are not good. We couldnt keep another big because the guy cannot shoot, he just can't. He had PG on his team and still couldnt get out of the first round. Most of them are his fault. He's got total carte blanche to do whatever out there and his defense has been horrible. If this was a one off thing I could buy it but he's been bad in the playoffs for several years now.

Cp3 was still playing better even when he was "hurt" though last year. Cp3 was also just flat out better this year at pretty much every point this season. I like Russ alot, he doesnt quit but he's not a good fit next to James.

He has the ball just as much as James's does, he has SOLE control when Harden isnt in, and we lose all those minutes.

Probably yea, if posting up or off ball movement work, I'll come back and give you my full "I was wrong."

 

https://www.theringer.com/2020/9/15...s-nuggets-celtics-heat-future-raptors-rockets

CV: JVG's name has been associated with every job for the last 10 years. How is it possible that every single job comes up, JVG is high on their list. This happened in Memphis a year ago and it's been every single team. Not to mention, he had been there prior. The other name was Sam Cassell.

KOC: That'd be awesome. He's been a successful assistant behind Doc Rivers for years now. Players love him as a coach, teammates loved him as a player, always been a leader, high IQ basketball player, been important with player development -- helped SGA as a shooter off the dribble, shooter off catches, reading PnR -- Cassell is a well liked guy around the league. He's fun but also gives you tough love. I never was able to do the story last year but I was working on something with SGA & Cassell and SGA said to me he's a tough love type of guy, you like to have him around but then he can be really hard on you and critical. That's the type of mentality Houston can use. We'll see if they make a Cassell hire. He'd be a good coach. I hope he gets an opportunity, whether it's with the Rockets or someone else down the line.

CV: Do you think Daryl is still there?

KOC: I think Daryl gets at least one more year. That's tough though. If you're Fertitta, if you have the GM hire the coach and then you oust him after a year...

[...]

When next season starts, will Harden-Westbrook be there?

KOC: I'd be shocked if they traded Westbrook because Harden wanted Westbrook. That's why they did what they did. Paul & Harden didn't want each other, Harden wanted Westbrook so they made the deal. They made the deal, those guys like each other, feel like they can win with each other. Whether they can or not, we can argue that the whole next year and we probably will but I'd be surprised if Westbrook was traded for that reason and 2. who needs a point guard and how many teams will want a point guard making $40M who gets ignored in the half court when he doesn't have the ball, who is an unreliable off-ball defender, who isn't one of the 40 best players in the NBA. There isn't many teams. Look at your face.

CV: What the F are you talking about. Are you serious? You're not serious.

KOC: Am I?

CV: Westbrook isn't one of the best 40 players in the NBA?

KOC: Let's go down the list. Westbrook or Booker? Starting a franchise today, factor in salary, age, production.

CV: Westbrook.

KOC: I disagree. I'd take Booker.

CV: That's fine. That's splitting hairs.

KOC: Westbrook or Jamal Murray?

CV: Russell Westbrook. What are we talking about?

KOC: This one will make you lose your ****. I've had 2 separate execs from separate teams text me this past week saying this. I did not bring this up to them, they brought it up to me. This is from watching Rockets-Lakers. They would rather have Rajon Rondo than Russell Westbrook. Rondo is making $2.5M. Westbrook is making $40M. Would you rather have Westbrook or Rondo?

CV: Both those execs, I'd fire them on the spot. ... Do I get Westbrook coming off Coronavirus & a bad hamstring or do I get Westbrook healthy coming back next year? He was the best player on the Houston Rockets from January until they stopped the season. Don't forget that. That all happened.

KOC: [...] Getting back to the question, will Harden-Westbrook be on the court with the Rockets next year, the whole overall point is that people around the league have soured on him a little bit. Smart people.

CV: Has anyone soured on James Harden?

KOC: That's partially because of what happens to Westbrook in the postseason time & time again.

CV: To what happens to Westbrook in the postseason [CV laughing hysterically].

KOC: He was getting ignored by the Lakers defense.

CV: Stop. That's really the story of the Houston Rockets? You have to got to be freaking kidding me. The story every year and you ignore it and blame a different person - you blame the coach, blame Dwight, blame Carmelo, blame Russ...it's always everyone else's fault except we get to the postseason and James Harden vomits all over himself again.

KOC: Westbrook gets worse in the playoffs.

CV: You turned into Westbrook is the problem.

KOC: He is the problem. He's one of the most overrated players in the league history.

CV: Get rid of him, Harden will still vomit all over himself next year. They changed the cast and we have the same discussion every year and you just blame someone different. I may not like James Harden and I don't appreciate him, I understand he is an outstanding player who also ?? in the playoffs. He's an outstanding player. You on the other hand detest Westbrook so much that you act like he's not a good player. I'm not even that stupid to act like Harden isn't good. He's great. He's a great player that fails his team....

KOC: Westbrook is a good player.

CV: You just called him one of the most overrated players in NBA history and not in the Top 40.

KOC: He is overrated. I don't think that's totally unfair. There's a lot of great players in the NBA.

CV: Put some respect on Westbrook's name.

KOC: He's a good player who's had some tremendous seasons, who's had tremendous moments. I'm not saying he's not a good player. You're putting words in my mouth here. Just like I've never said you said Harden isn't a great player.

CV: Who we have the same and it's clockwork, end the playoffs, we have the same discussion.

KOC: I didn't say Westbrook is the reason they lost. All I said was Westbrook because of what he turns into the playoffs, that turns some teams off, when teams are ignoring him.

CV: You spent 10 minutes explaining why Westbrook was such a detriment, how execs would rather have Rondo. The number one scorer in the NBA 2-11, over and over again. 2-11. It's not his team and it won't be his team. They can get rid of him and it'll still be Harden's team.

KOC: As it should be.

CV: And they'll continue to lose before they're supposed to lose for the rest of time.

 

He (KOC)sounds like a huge Russ hater. Some of his criticism while fair but some are just unreasonable

 

Damn, I now have to vicariously live off of Kevin's WB hate now that he's on our team... 3-ish more years eh? @Clutch faints

Hopefully we pluck out a playmaker who can spell Harden. I do have faith Harden will eventually work improving off the ball movement in the off season, if only to mix it up during playoffs.

Maybe Murry shoves him stats or redactions of why the Worrier offensive strategeries were bad for us?

Uhh...call it Plan B for when Pacing Means Less When Everyone's Legs Are Heavy.

 

For all the talk about off-ball movement and james ...

I think James preferred to be the primary ballhandler/playmaker even when cp3 first came to houston. the hope was that they would both make things easier for themselves by using each other's playmaking. Instead it was more cp3 playing offball than harden did. The same thing happened when we traded cp3 for russ. Russ basically did what cp3 did by moving into a more off-ball focus, with the difference being that instead of spotting up from 3 like cp3 did or iso-ing bigs for 3s (much more effective his 1st year obviously), russ just attacked the basket off the catch (at least he was most efficient doing it that way).

Overall, James has very seldom played any "off-ball" since his first couple of years in houston a little, with inferior playmakers next to him (jeremy lin, parsons even a little). But because he got so insanely good himself at playmaking, he either wasn't coached or he deliberately preferred NOT to utilize the potential space afforded him by cp3/russ, opting instead to take the ball up himself & initiate the offense for them versus finishing off plays from their playmaking.

In an ideal world, James would have blended both his playmaking with converting the gravity of cp3/russ into easier ways to get buckets. But being the undisputed #1 guy, He preferred or was coached by MDA to be mostly the former.

The question is whether he could finally bring it all together and adopt more of a balance. It's been my opinion that the last 3 years would have been the most optimal to try more of it. But, I suppose it's not too late with Russ.

 

That podcast was cringeworthy to listen to.

Vernon rather than actually listen to and respond to an argument that he knows he can’t refute just raises the level of his voice and cackles and says stop.

Why KOC didn’t simply say “what the hell has Westbrook been doing in the playoffs the last few years?”

Vernon is similar to a handful of Westbrook lovers on this message board. You could lay out every piece of statistical evidence that he no longer is a good player and all they will do is explain away the numbers and say “he scores a lot of points! He was an MVP!”

It’s sad really that he is the best The Ringer can come up with as an “analyst”. KOC is probably the best analyst they have and yet they saddle him with the worst as a podcast partner.

 

nope this was MDA and small ball nonsense. Hopefully the new coach will get harden to start using his mid range and post up more

 

This. Harden needs more balance in his offensive game as efficient shots increasingly get taken away during the playoffs.

 

James only wants to win on his terms. He’s an amazing player but he’s no leader and he has a tremendous arrogance.

 

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-...s-and-kemba-search-parties-with-ryen-russillo

RR: Would you do Paul George for Harden right now if you're the Clippers?

BS: Oh yeah.

[...]

BS: Most fun D'Antoni team?

RR: We've heard the Philly thing for awhile. I don't know it makes a ton of sense for him. Probably New Orleans.

BS: Best thing to happen to Lonzo.

[...]

BS: Fertitta calls you. "Hey, I'm calling people I respect. What would you do if you were me? Run this back with a different coach? Try to get a big? What would you do?"

RR: Does James want to play with Russ again or can you trade Russ? Trying to trade Russ now, it's impossible. Harden still likes Russ. I gotta know what's important to Harden. The new coach comes in, he doesn't want you dribbling the ball between your legs for 40 ****ing percent of the game. Do you want to keep doing that? Do we need to do this another year to see it doesn't work? What are you looking for James? I don't even know what kind of answer you get from James. Probably "I'm built different, I'm a problem." I'd blow this whole thing up. I can't imagine owning the team & having to watch this and then signing all the checks. As talented as Harden is....I don't know with his money situation. Does he need to be competitive so it can trick Rockets fans into thinking "Hey man, know who's been on fire in February? Harden. We went 12-3 in our last 15! I think we could really do it this year!" Is that enough? What would you do?

BS: Because you have no other choice, you talk yourself into how the team looked in February & what that could look like outside the bubble.

RR: I can tell you how that looks.

BS: Not saying it's right. You talk yourself into whatever reality you want. The reality of this team was their window was 2018 and 2019. The other thing that ****ed them was they traded Chris Paul not realizing he was going to this plant-based diet that completely changed his career. He went in a time machine back to 2014. If they had known that, the smarter move is to keep Chris Paul & those extra picks and the contract that ended a year earlier than Russ. They thought they were selling high on Chris Paul because his career was about to go in the poo-poo and didn't realize he was gonna have this rejuvenation.

RR: Paul's been hurt but Paul's argument was I'm still beating guys off the dribble. All of you that want me in a retirement home, I'm still taking people off the dribble. The problem is Harden doesn't move. Off the ball, he doesn't do anything. You can say it spaces everything but defenders know in big spots, once James isn't in the play, he isn't in the play & I don't have to pay attention to him. That was Paul's beef but because Paul is a high IQ basketball guy, he'd be pissed at Harden all the time, Harden is like "This is my team, I'm sick of this ****, I get along better with Russ anyways" so Harden goes to ownership and says I want to play with Russ. That's your biggest problem. Even if you want to try the Harden thing again, he's incredibly productive, he's healthy, I think he'll hold up for a really long time but I'd want to know, do you want to keep playing this style? OK, you do? The Russ part, I know those two months were incredible when you opened it all up but do we want be incredible in February & March or do we want a real shot at this? Having a real shot at this, as constructed, we don't have a great chance. Covington thing is great, love Tucker, Gordon up and down but as 3rd/4th guy not a big deal. I have to know where Harden's head is at. To run it back with Russ & him, which is probably what happens because trading for Russ is really, really hard. The only teams I ever hear about Russ, a team that would sit around and be like "We're stale, we haven't done ****, we're totally off the radar for 5+ years, do we just throw a bunch of pieces at Russ and say we have a "superstar". Do we do it to shake it all up and be different & have a cool attraction. And then you're like $44M and he's hurt? No.

BS: In the 70s & 80s, Russ would have been traded two more times. Like George McGinnis. Could a team like Sacramento go "Hey, Russ! He won MVP three years ago! Could he sell tickets for us? Put him with De'Aaron Fox! Hield for Russ? We're getting the better player!" Then Russ is on your team. My guess is they'll run it back, new coach, blame the bubble, blame Russ was banged up.

RR: They'll definitely blame someone. Those articles are coming. There's very little accountability with that organization. There just is. The ref report two years ago is one of the more embarrassing things. It was a joke.

 

Can't say I disagree on this take. How much do you think it was him deliberately choosing into this versus playing under MDA and Morey's "no midrange" philosophy?