He has played 11 games. 11 games is such a small sample. Remember how poor Harden shot in the first 10 games? Everybody was freaking out, and now his numbers are inching closer to his career averages. I would imagine that is what will happen with Russ. Also Harden has had to play 11 games without his sidekick, Westbrook played 2. I'd still take Harden any day. I'll take the guy that has carried his banged up team to an 18-5 through 23 games over the guy that has played 11 and posted better shooting numbers. All that being said I do really like Westbrook's intensity and fierce competitiveness. There are very few players I would take over him... Harden is just one those players
Ditto the comment that Francis was supposed to be Westbrook. Let's look at their career stats: If you take Westbrook's career stats he beats Francis. If you take his best individual season, he edges Steve. He also has to share the ball with a premier scorer in the league. Francis had no one to defer to, so his stats *should* have been much better (along the lines of Iverson's stats). Francis' 01-02 season was probably his best where he averaged 21.6-7-6.4 vs Westbrook's best of 23.6-4.6-5.5. Westbrook has been to a finals and advanced in the playoffs plenty in his young career. The argument here of course is that Durant was the one carrying the team but in the Finals vs the Heat it was WB keeping them in games (anyone remember that 42 point explosion in the game they lost?). Bottom line is that when you watch Russ play, he looks like Sonic the Hedgehog out there. He's at warp speed while everyone else is 1.0x speed. Francis NEVER looked as fast, sharp or as athletic as Westbrook does. He's arrogant and out of control a lot, but I'm not sure I've seen a player with as many physical tools as he has. If you take either player, in their prime, 32 teams take Westbrook over Francis and no one bats an eye.
Having watched Stevie through his career I have to say Westbrook is a far better player than Francis ever was.
For the sake of where this argument has gone.....if Westbrook is at such warp speed, why aren't his numbers infinitely better? My knock on Westbrook are his %'s. If Durant is getting all of the attention, why isn't Westbrook more efficient? Remember the last season Harden had with OKC? His %'s were out of this world - b/c he wasn't the focus of defenses. This argument has sort of gotten a life of its own. People can nitpick the comparison all they want. Look at the stats though. You're not going to find an exact clone of an NBA player. The stats show that Westbrook has not produced much more than a healthy Francis on the floor, and history indicates Westbrook won't do much better by the end of the season either.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015.html Defensive win shares: 1. Green - 1.8 2. HARDEN - 1.8
If WB keeps playing like this, Durant may have to take a backseat. This is the first time we are seeing 2 truly dominant players at the peak of their powers playing together since Shaq/Kobe.
Literally any metric, team d, or eye test proves he has been playing good defense. Time will tell if he sustains, but Yeah... results are clear.
This is taking the argument and spinning it on its head, playing with a legit superstar like Kevin Durant doesn't make you worse, it makes you better since true superstars make everyone better. Just take a look at Parsons, did his stats get better or worse when he left Houston? It got worse (esp. % wise) and this is with him going to a squad with its own legit superstar in Dirk, a great coach in Carlisle and another good offensive threat in Monta. In the same vein, Francis had to do everything by himself so of course his % and his numbers would be down, he played with inferior talent with Mobley and then when he got Yao Ming he wasn't equipped to take advantage of him. On the other hand, WB is in dreamland because it looks like his entire team was personally built to make him look good. He has Kevin Durant who does the actual superstar work, attracts the offense posts MVP numbers and doesn't mind that WB jacks up more shots even though he is more efficient/better at everything else. He also has defensive dudes at the 4, 5 and 2 so WB can jack up all the shots he wants "because the team needs it". Even better, the team without WB is actually pretty good so even the "winning" part that dodges guys like Iverson, Melo etc. doesn't have any effect on him. With all that said, I have no problems saying WB is probably better than Francis. However, the difference between the two is just slight at best, at the end of the day they are both undersized SGs masquerading as PGs who are 100% reliant on their athletic skills. Once WB gets older and loses his hops I won't be surprised if he suddenly becomes a scrub just like Francis.
Harden is playing better. He's not the elite defender Westbrook is. According to win shares, Boozer was a great defender last year. It's better used as a team stat.
Let's be clear here. Recently it's become obvious that without KD, Westbrook's stats and game doesn't seem to be negatively impacted. So even with opposing defenses trying to stop WB as their main goal, he's destroying everyone. To me, he's just as good as KD now.
I'd also like to compare Westbrook to a shorter Kobe than to Francis. Francis never had the same imposing physical strength as Westbrook. Sure Francis was athletic, could jump high and could perform acrobatic dunks, but Westbrook's athleticism is way more about power than hops. Also Francis never had a post up game. His offense was mostly based around isolation and breaking down his defender with good handles. Westbrook is a better all around offensive player (that's where the comparison with Kobe comes from). Also Westbrook is much better on defense.... If I had to compare Francis to a PG today, it would be Damian Lillard, expect more athletic and not as good of a shooter.
making his way in MVP convo, 17 assist 2to tonight, if thunder go on a run and move up with kd out things will get very interesting
If Harden in the 4th seed isn't winning it (because of team success) Westbrook in the 7/8 seed sure as hell isn't winning it.
WB was insane against the Nuggets. It doesn't get much better than that. Kanter at C along with Roberson being injured forced their coach to put 5 scorers on the floor most of the time (even with KD out). Yes, the Nuggets were the opponent but OKC passed the eye test. The win was very impressive. It will be interesting to watch them against a good defensive team. It will also be interesting to see what happens to their offense after teams start accounting for Kanter's presence.
Westbrook is one of my fav players in the league. Love his game and his personality! In fact, if you were to ask me to pick one player from OKC to add to the Rockets, I would most probably pick Westbrook over Durant. Not only is he a great player, he puts a lot of pressure on defense the entire game and is a FIERCE FIERCE competitor.
Westbrook is not even close to the MVP race, how can he be after just 1 good month of basketball. This is what i get angry about, a player has 1 good month and suddenly "oh he is MVP" Go look at his January numbers
