When I was in school we had a coach that preached about being at practice every single day. He said the guys that weren't there every day, wouldnt play. We had a guy that was a backup at defensive tackle. He missed two practices one week and the coach sat him the whole next game. Everybody saw it and we were all excited because we knew he meant what he said. Nobody else missed practice. The next year we were all excited about the season ahead because we figured things would stay the same. Then the first week of the season our starting running back missed two practices. We practiced without him as if he was going to sit out. After two possessions of that Friday's game we were down 14-0. The next series our starting running back was back in there. We won the game but we all lost respect for our coach. This feels like the same exact thing but on a much worse scale. The Astros stood strong on the issue with Danry Vasquez and they talked about their zero tolerance policy... then this happens. You cant have a zero tolerance policy and then later say it's only if they do it with our team. To me it just feels like we are selling our souls to win again and I hate it... ESPECIALLY on this issue.
The Jays did shop Osuna last year. In fact the Astros and Blue Jays had heavy conversations before the deadline. I discussed it at the time. The domestic abuse didn’t come completely out of left field for the Jays. They knew that he had impregnated two women in less than a year and was having problems with both of them. They knew about other players saying he went too far off the field and went from being a disciplined guy to out of control. They knew his personal problems were impacting his performance for part of last year. I’m sure in time it will all come out. Also the Jays management said they would welcome Osuna back after he served his punishment and the investigation was complete. So really there is no high road for the Blue Jays to take. The Astros wanted a closer and no one realistic was available for a price Luhnow was willing to pay. The Astros had interest in Osuna the year before. He is young, cheap and under team control (with the service time suspension) for possibly 3 years. He has been nails in the playoffs, he has pitched well against the AL East. All it took was a couple of ex-teammates to vouch for Osuna and a phone call to Osuna and the Astros were willing to risk the backlash. There was precedent with the Cubs trading for Aroldis Chapman (who was a complete ******* during his time in Chicago). If Osuna performs well, keeps his mouth shut and stays out of trouble, he will at a minimum be tolerated by his teammates and fans.
Did he? Do you know this for a fact? We know that he's accused of doing SOMETHING, but I'm not aware of there even being details about what he's accused of doing, so how can you be so sure? Even if we just assume the worst, that's he's guilty of beating his girlfriend, it's something he's been punished for already and again, it's not THAT serious of an issue to where one incident would be an unforgivable thing. Like I said in the other comment, some of you guys are acting like he murdered or raped someone and it's a bit ridiculous.
Just because the Astros inquired about Osuna doesn't mean he was getting shopped. The only reason that he is even traded now was due to the fact he hit his woman. As a baseball player he is an elite player as a human not so much. The Astros stole him from the Jays
The Jays were willing to trade him to the Astros last year. The Astros strongly considered it and attempted to get Britton for a lower cost. The teams had advanced conversations. Luhnow even alluded to it indirectly saying there was a prominent trade the Astros discussed and considered making.
We are talking about sports and fandom. In a lot of peoples eyes, perception is reality. There a re players who are losing hall of fame votes because of perception. This isn't about true justice, we have a system for that. is about whether people get excited when he throws a ball really really fast and makes the guy trying to hit it with a stick swing and miss. So yes, seeming repentant has a positive effect.
Not saying anything without being rude and being on best behavior will warm the fans to him much faster.
I am surprised people believed the Astros “zero tolerance” BS. There is almost always a separate set of rules for star players. Had the minor leaguer been someone like Whitley or Tucker, the Astros wouldn’t have released them or self servingly said “zero tolerance”. Let’s put it this way. If Jose Altuve hit his wife last year, do you think Luhnow would have quoted zero tolerance and released him. Of course not. They would have said MLB is investigating it and Altuve paid for his crime and received counseling and it won’t happen again. At the end of the day fans want to win.... owners want to win... players want to win AND if you are a good enough players, excuses will be made.
No the Jays weren't. I just searched through all of the articles and even from the Jays side. None of them mentioned a possible trade. All I saw were teams were inquiring about him that was it.
Believe what you want to believe as it really isn’t a big point. I know that the Blue Jays were willing to deal Osuna a year ago to the Astros, but the Astros were not entirely comfortable paying the price. I talked about it the day of the trade deadline. FWIW the Jays denied they were going to deal Osuna all the way up until he was dealt to Houston... and the Astros were not the only team that was interested in Osuna either.
Again they weren't. Is that you Trump? Ok just say you are right just for one minute and the Jays said I want the top 5 players in your farm system. Doesn't mean they were willing to deal Osuna. They really weren't willing trade him. Hense unrealistic demands. Again doesn't mean the Jays were shopping him nor willing to trade him the Astros.
People make horrible mistakes; are they not allowed to ever live them down. Can they never be forgiven and move on with their lives? It seems like in the midst of widespread depravity, our culture is also becoming less forgiving.
That thought has crossed my mind. Kid is 23. There is a chance he's one of the ones truly remorseful and makes a change for the better. That is a true possibility, though the general consensus so far is that he is an irrepairable dirtbag
Lunhow strikes me as a pretty arrogant type person so not really surprised - in his mind as long as they win it won’t matter. And to some degree he’s right - think about how many scandals the Pats have had yet they keep winning and to a certain extent it cures all.
Is that you ethics professor? Great post. If the bluejays were a stand up that they are painted to be they would of dropped his ass like ray rice.. The Osuna case is complicated, they just didn't want to deal with the potential drama.
For various reasons, our culture is less forgiving of certain things. In general, people are willing to forgive as much as ever.
He is an elite closer. It’s not fair to say cause the story of what happened is likely being kept under wraps by the wishes of the lawyers and court to avoid a circus. And it’s likely the worst scenario but a threat of assault is still an assault charge in Canada. Either way there is anger there that he’s dealing with on his own accord. If he continues to pitch well, continues to deal with it and steers the ship. There should be no reason for concern.
Manziel sucks as a pro, weighs 165 pounds, and wouldn't have played in the NFL even if he was a model citizen. But he got plenty of opportunities in lower leagues and for some reason I still read about him on my ESPN feed to this day. Osuna is in the 3rd, maybe 2nd tier of elite closers but isn't a safe looking guy you'll see in the burbs. So free reign for the media guilt trip on 100x.
You are likely 18-20 and a bit too naive for your own good. Time will tell you when you don't have the facts, it's good to slow your roll , sit in the corner, and let others do the talking.
Nice try I am 42. "How old are you again? 12?" See I can play this childish game as well. Grow up and act your age. When you are ready to debate at the grown ups table let us know. For now just be content at the kiddie table.
