[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

I think you're missing the point. Carr did not have the right tools around him to do the job. Why can't you accept this? Why do you put all the blaim on Carr? Name one qb in the NFL that could have been successful in Carr's place. Don't say Manning, because you saw how Manning performs when under pressure. Manning folded like a cheap chair.

 

Of course it does. In anything in life, one of the things that shows if a person is qualified is by his accolades.

Vince winning all those awards and his resume (30-2 as a starter) obviously has some credibility. How else does he win it if he isn't good or doesn't merit winning the award?

I'm not saying it is the only thing that matters but it definitely helps. If you're trying to compare 2 people vying for a job, you look at his resume, his body of work. I'm not saying that b/c he won the Maxwell award as the best player in the college football, that means he's gonna be the best player in the NFL. What I AM saying is that he won the award for a reason and that awards tell a scout or a GM that he's a pretty good player/prospect.

 

Then what does? A 40 time on a track? I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean VY will be a star in the league, but you don't accomplish those kind of things unless you're a pretty damn good player.

VY's leadership (especially in big games) along with the poise he has is something that cannot be measured. That along with his accomplishments and his potential should have him rated as a #1 pick along with Bush. My point is that the scouts will rate VY that high in which Mr. Clutch said they may or may not.

 

you forgot no touch. i swear every throw is a fastball, even shorter routes. i saw 4 attempted fades to aj this year near the goal line. all failed and all were uncatchable. i also saw many times rb/fb dropping underneath passes cause they were too damn fast. i also saw carr going for home runs to bradford when he had his best offensive player wide open and in stride. i've also seen him get chased and run out of bounds and take a sack instead of getting rid of the ball. i could go on and on.

is all of that his o-lines fault?

 

I used to be the #1 David Carr basher on this board. Most everyone took up for him. I'd say as much as 85% of the board took up for him.

Then VY declared for the draft....

Nobody was bashing Carr this much before VY declared. That is what is hilarious to me. If Carr was THIS bad, we would have all been talking about drafting Leinart all along way before VY ever declared.

 

I have consistently said that I do not like Carr, and he is one of the PRIMARY reasons the team sucks.

To be clear, I would take Lienert over Bush.......we need a GOOD QB...to lead this team........Carr is NOT it.

DD

 

The scouts will rate VY pretty high but Reggie Bush is probably rated higher, judging from what I have read. Bush is apparently one of the highest rated RB's ever. Everyone talks about leadership over and over but what about arm strength, ability to make reads, and not going from the shotgun?

VY fans are arguing that scout ratings don't matter because of more #1 QBs leading their teams to Super Bowls (which ignores the stud RBs they had). But the ratings of the 2 players is exactly what it's going to come down to.

 

The same could be said for DD, I don't remember anyone bashing DD all that much and they still don't, but yet we are talking about how much we need Reggie on this team.

The point is that Carr and VY are 2 completely different players. Although they play the same position, the way they play are completely different and many feel that it could be better. Leinart and Carr are similar in how they are both pocket passers, replacing Carr with Leinart would be a linear move in that the team wouldn't improve all that much. But if you are talking about Bush or VY, you're talking about players that are gamebreakers and could possibly greatly improve the franchise.

 

Yes. You definitely have not been a Carr fan all along. I can remember your posts.

But, this is the thread i'm thinking of specifically. There is some good discussion towards the end of the thread about Carr.... some posters in this thread have flip-flopped their opinion on David Carr since VY delcared, check it out, its a pretty good read:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=100937

 

A QB is not going to be a consistent gambebreaker using his legs. Like everyone keeps saying, Vick was contained and so you can't expect Vince to run for 1,000 yards in the NFL. In order to be successful VY is going to have to excel in the pocket.

 

True. Good Point.

 

Originally Posted by IC2000
None of that will help Vince in the NFL, except the big game experience. The scouts will not care about his awards or stats. I am not saying he will be rated poorly or anything. But pointing out his accomplishments does not mean he will be a good prospect.

Cause all that big time NFL Skill analysis is more important than who the player has proven himself to be-

Ryan Leaf

 

how about for about 900? i think it was 1990 that Cunningham threw for around 3600 yards and ran for about 900. that sounds find with me.

 

The ability to make reads and not going from the shotgun can all be learned, leadership and poise is something that cannot be coached or taught, that is probably the reason why us pro-VY guys keep on mentioning it. The guy refuses to lose and if there is any possible chance of winning the game, he'll put the entire team on his shoulders and lead them.

As for arm strength, I personally think it's as good as it needs to be and once again, it is something that can be improved. I also think it's something that many are underestimating. VY threw a ton of long balls this season and they were either right on the money or he overshot them. Long bombs are thrown with a flick of the wrist, I've never seen VY have to wind up to throw deep. As for sharp passes, he's improved his precision passing so much since last season, he throws them right on the money and it gets there more than any other QB in the NCAA.

 

i haven't looked at that thread...and i can almost guarantee you i'm one of those who flipped.

but why are we to be married to our positions forever?? particulalry when there is new information...when we know more NOW than we did THEN??

Clutch called me out for this same thing earlier saying I'd flipped on VY since September. Well, no kidding I have. Because in that time, VY has played more games...about twice as many as he'd played before. And we saw development. If you're not willing to change your mind then your arguments can't hold much weight. The word for that is "closed-minded." i'd be happy to stay out of that camp.

i think carr can be a good QB. i still wouldn't let that get in the way of me picking a guy like VY.

 

I don't expect VY to run for 1,000 yards in the NFL but he sure does have the ability to do so doesn't he? I think his biggest asset is they way he uses his legs to scramble and how he always finds a way to keep the play alive.

Carr is a pretty mobile QB in my opinion and he still took the most sacks in the league. Sure, the OL didn't give him a whole lot to work with, but imagine if we had a QB that can scramble and buy more time for all the receivers or can straight up tuck it and take it all the way to the house.

But I absolutely agree that VY is going to have to excel in the pocket to have success, but from what I've seen of VY (which is every college game he's ever played) there is almost no doubt in my mind that he can do so.

 

Vick was contained, however, because he can't throw the ball worth crap. If Vick could throw with any sense of accuracy, he'd be ridiculously good.

 

exactly right. the fact that he's mobile isn't the problem. the fact that he seems incapable of beating anyone with his arm is the problem.

 

I don't think it's necessarily that Carr is *that* bad. It's that Vince has the potential to be that good that has people excited. I have no idea if Vince will be successful in the NFL - too many questions (same for Bush, though). As opposed to guys like Manning or Ricky Williams who were both more traditional NFL types, Vince and Bush both will have to change their games a lot to translate to the NFL.

That said, I suspect the reason Vince is looked at so highly (in addition to the UT/Houston thing) is that it seems like he has "it". It's what Peyton Manning, as great as he is, doesn't have. It's what Simms never had at UT, but Applewhite did. It's what Tom Brady has. The ability to find a way to win - it's something that can't really be taught or developed, so when you find it, you take it. When you combine that "it" with phenomenal physical talent (unlike Applewhite, Brady, etc), you have a ridiculously high ceiling. I think that's what the argument for Vince boils down to.

 

It is certainly a HUGE factor.

DD