You could say the exact same thing about every player who has ever had success in the NBA playoffs. Ever. "When Lebron James won his two championships, there is no way he would have done that without Wade and Bosh...." "When Tim Duncan won his championships, there is no way he would have done that without Ginobili and Parker...." Dirk didn't have championship success until he played with (healthy) Tyson Chandler, Marion, Terry and Kidd. Billups in Detroit had the Wallaces and Hamilton. Kobe has only had success when he was with Shaq or with Gasol/good Bynum. When he didn't have those, the Lakers were terrible. Shoot, even Jordan had Pippen. You said that Carmelo only had success because of the other players he played with. Even great players need to play with other great players if they really want to succeed (I think Daryl Morey said something like that before?). There are some things that I don't really like about Carmelo's game, and I don;t think he is the best fit here. But what you said about Carmelo you could say about everyone- that by itself is in no way a knock against him.
Getting Melo would be a great PR move but I dont think that is what the team needs...IMO I think they need to get a perimeter defender that can knock down a spot up 3 (Trevor Ariza) and upgrade at the point guard position, Bev is good and is improving but an upgrade would be great. Ive been watching the Spurs and a guy like Patty Mills would be great next to Harden!
.... You can't be serious, Gasol was a tier above anything Melo ever had (and was the lakers best player through one of those playoff series) and Shaq? come on, he was the best player on the team, and one of the most dominant forces in the history of the nba, Shaq could have won those titles with a dozen other number 2's.
How do you know that? During LAL's first 3 championships, Shaq was the most dominant player in the league and carried those teams much more than Kobe did. If that was early Carmelo instead of Kobe, they still would have had a great chance. The championships with Gasol, Kobe wasn't much more than a scorer at that point in his career. He had lost a good amount of his athleticism and defense, but had improved his shot and post-up moves. Scoring is exactly what Carmelo excels at. That team with Carmelo wouldn't have been much different.
No. No one said we would possibly be the best team in the league when we added Howard. Morey HIMSELF has stated we were still definitely below OKC and Spurs.
Because players need to exert energy on both sides of the court. Forcing his counterpart to play defense naturally prevent them from playing their best offense. Why do you think Harden is so lazy on D? Two years ago, when Melo played mostly PF, LMA, Griffin, and Randolph scored 20ppg, 14ppg, and 11ppg against the Knicks respectively. Basketball is interesting because so many things are intertwined. And the total is not always the sum of its parts.
Hello photojoe - I am not disagreeing with you. It is hard for even the most talented players to win a Championship without help. I agree with you on that point, and I think everyone on this board will also agree with you on that point. The point I am trying to make is, Carmelo's defensive deficiency creates a liability that playoff caliber teams will brutally exploit and is too large of a liability to close or overcome for a team he is on to win a championship. In my previous post, I admitted that Carmelo need Billups and Nene to win in Denver. But that Denver team did not make it to the Championship round. I also agreed with the previous poster that Kobe needed Shaq and Gasol to win his championships. Where I was trying to make a point was that, if you swapped out Shaq or Gasol for Nene, or flat out swapped Carmelo for Kobe and put Carmelo on the Lakers, no way do the Lakers still win. Imagine putting Carmelo on this years Spurs team. Miami would have exploited Carmelo in every way possible. There is no way you can say the Spurs would have still won. And San Antonio crushed Miami in three of the games. In the playoffs, a good coach will exploit every single weakness in a player. Even a bad coach over a long series will find ways to exploit weaknesses and deficiencies in a players game. You can not hide a players weakness. In a 5 or 7 game series, any advantage that can be exploited will be exploited. A well run efficient offense is the best way to score points, but if you can create mismatches, when why not. Go back and watch the Portland series and see how Portland ran rough shot on our guards. Yeah, Jeremy Lin sucked in the series, but he is not making the big bucks. I hold Harden and Howard the most responsible. I expected more from Harden on the offensive end, on the defensive end, Portland practically scored at will and I have not even gotten to LaMarcus demolished us at the forward position. Carmelo is fools gold. He will make you feel that he is going to take you to the promised land in the regular season and leave you wondering what happened in the playoffs. At the end of the day, I judge players by what they deliver in the playoffs.
You're looking at it wrong, if melo can play with jr smith, I'm sure he can play with a team USA team mate! Melo training in the post with Hakeem would be the best post sensation next to Howard. Imagine the floor spacing.. Straight buckets
It would be interesting.... But defense would be an even bigger concern then it is now! and right now it's pretty big concern.
Idk. I know Carmelo would give us the best chance to win, but if I didn't live in Houston I would ****ing hate that team. I like 2 man star teams, where both stars can play to their full abilities. In a 3 man situation, one star is always diminished to more of a role-player. Just not a big fan of 3-star teams in general, and I feel it would make our team much harder to root for.
uhhh no if you look at the Clutchfans expectations thread it seemed most thought we were destined for at least the Confrence finals... Like I said the talent on our team is not the problem. it is the attitude of the players that is the problem. When you watch teams like the Spurs you know everybody is committed to the cause on every play. Everybody buys into passing the ball, everybody buys into creating space for their teammates, and everybody commits to playing all out on D. Unlike us who look like 5 guys who just played pick up for the first time together and have little to no cohesiveness and are just trying to do whats best for themselves. I dont see Carmelo effecting us positively in any of our areas of concern, Defensively he is another liability, he is another ball stopper and another player that has not shown the maturity to lead a team to any sort of long term success. Would we be a better team with him? Probably so, but we aren't winning a Championship until we keep a team together long enough for the chemistry to build.
I don't agree with this. Put Carmelo on the 2000's era LAL team, when Shaq was one of the most dominant forces in the post ever, and they still would have won championships. Put Carmelo on the 2008-2010 LAL teams, and they still would have had a good shot and been very competitive. Kobe was nothing more than a good scorer on a good team at that point. Carmelo is a scorer. They are different players, but the roles would have been just about the same. I'm not trying to say that Carmelo is the perfect fit for our team. I really don't think he is. I don't like his mediocre (at best) defense, I don't like his tendency to hold on to the ball and then shoot a contested jumpshot. I'm not sure how he would work with another ball-dominant player like Harden. And how would Dwight feel about having even less touches in the post, which he seems to want so much? Would there be major concerns if we got him? Of course there would be! There are other players I would rather have. All I'm trying to say is that he has a certain skill, and that one skill he does well. Really, really well. I don't think he should be discredited for what he has done by giving credit to players like an aging Chauncey Billups, a way-past-his-prime Amare Stoudemire, an injury waiting to happen in Tyson Chandler or a really good but not great player like Nene.
How much will Carmelo impact this team on both sides of the court? We do well on the offensive side but we lack the ability to get timely stops as well as the discipline to hold onto leads. Obviously a talent like Carmelo will bolster our ability to score, as we will have two premier offensive players in our starting lineup. I do have doubts about our ability to maximize our team's potential as shots will have to be divided amongst Harden, D12 and Melo.
I respect that, you make some good points as well. Everyone has a right to thier own opinon, I just try to provide things for people to consider. My mind can also be changed as well, I try to learn from others in exchanges. Well, all stars need talent to win. Even LeBron needed two all star HOF caliber players to finally win a ring. As great as he is, his earlier success in Cleveland came in a weak conference. Don't get me wrong, he's was incredibly dominant. The Rockets unfortunately don't have that luxury with a stacked western conference. Unless you have a guy like Hakeem you need at least a second all star caliber or elite coach to win. Even Jordan needed that. Dirk also wasn't known for defense and I think without l year removed DPOY Tyson Chandler, he doesn't win his ring. He helped Dirk's deficiency on defense and Dirk helped his imo. I agree Kobe is a better leader, player and work ethic. But his defense, while good (and better than Carmelo's) is overrated and his accolades were very reputation based imo and Carmelo is on his level offensively. (so as not to distract, I can provided evidence of Kobe's lack of percieved defensive impact in another post if it's needed) Carmelo is on par with Kobe as a scorer and honestly, Kobe's shot selection at times was a negative in his game imo. Kobe is slightly better offensively but not much. Let's compare Kobe Vs Carmelo's offense at age 29 (last year for Carmelo): http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#per_game Keep in mind Kobe still has Lamar Odom, Gasol and Phil Jackson making his job easier on offense and defense. I can understand that point of view. He's not LeBron, Jordan or Kobe but no one is and if we can't get LeBron, Love, (I also think Lowry resigns with Toronto) etc. Melo provides our best chance at a third star. I look at what the Rockets can do to helo improve our core to win a championship with whose available. He's an upgrade over Parsons and we can find 3&D roleplayers at Point guard/wing and a defensive PF positions to compliment our potential core. The major factor affecting defense is coaching. Clifford transformed Charlotte, Thibs did it to Chicago, Vogel in Indiana. These things are easier to change and aquire than a true star imo.
You mean a poll where people just vote randomly? That's your evidence? Anyway, I decide to google and found this. Much longer thread and much more actually fans writing instead of pointing and clicking on a poll. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=242396
Ok with Melo, depends on who we give up. I'm more concerned with our defense. Who will we get to bring defensive coaching to the Rockets next year?
