Rockets showing interest in trading for Ricky Rubio?

The question was which hurts his team worse, Rubio with his poor shooting or Harden with his turnovers.

You can complain about the answer all you want but you don't have an answer. If you don't understand how much turnovers hurt a team then you don't understand basketball. Once again, turnovers are over twice as bad as a missed shot.

Read my signature. And remember what it is. Burn it into your brains. Because unless and until we get a distributing point and move Harden off the ball we aren't winning a championship. I don't care how many regular season wins we get or how many rounds in the playoffs we go. We will ultimately be undone by Hardens turnovers as long as he is the primary distributor.

 

The only way you get Harden to reduce his turnovers, is to ask him to not be one of the most potent offensive weapons into the league. And to ask him to stop borrowing in the lane to try and get to the free throw line. You want him to just keep standing at the top of the key shooting long contested jumpers, just so he doesn't turn it over?

If Dwight Howard goes we're already going to see Harden's turnovers take a dive, because he isn't going to have to try and appease that P.O.S by making impossible passes to him that he can't catch in traffic - but demands them still from Harden.

Half your theory is correct. We need a PG so the ball is out of Harden's hands more.

That PG also needs to be a dead-eye three point shooter otherwise we're spinning wheels.

Ricky Rubio does not fit that description.

 

False.

The way you get Harden to lower his turnovers and become even more potent offensively is to get him to accept a great distributor who will set him up with even easier shots and more of them while also removing the burden of Harden having to try to feed everybody else.

 

Harden could easily average 36 on greater efficiency with a true distributor feeding him the basketball. He's that good of a scorer.

 

I'm with bbholic, Kobe Bryant was a gifted scorer and distributor. He averaged 3.0 turnovers per game for his career yet he was always the playmaker. He still did plenty without bringing the ball across the half court line. That's just a wasted skill for a scorer to develop. There's absolutely no reason why Harden has to insist on dribbling across the halfcourt line. Pride is probably the only reason he does it. It's a weak part of his game and it's not worth working on. Let a point guard do it.

Steve Nash 2.9
Tracy McGrady 2.2
Mister Jordan 2.7
Clyde Drexler 2.7
James Worthy 2.0
Kevin Durant 3.2
Larry Legend 3.1

Harden last year 4.3

He doesn't have to make a huge change to lower his turnovers, but if he can eliminate the unnecessary ones that happen before he's 28 feet from the basket, the team will be better.

 

I think a good way to lower Harden's turnovers would be to reduce his minutes, surround him with better role players, role players who can hold on to his passes, make shots, and defend. Some of his turnovers are due to guys simply not being able to hold on to a decent to excellent pass. I've seen many of them fumbled away, and often those count as Harden turnovers. Having one or two star caliber players wouldn't hurt, but solid role players who can shoot, pass, set picks, and defend would be something I wouldn't mind seeing next season.

Reduce his minutes, he's 1st or 2nd in the league in minutes played per game, and he will make better decisions, play better defense with more energy. Surround him with guys that can make the wide open shots he gives them and his assists will go up. Giving him an offense with some structure from a coach who knows what he's doing would help as well. Whether we'll have that next season is a question waiting to be answered. You're fixating on turnovers, 'Holic, and missing some of the larger problem, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind having a less expensive Rubio as an option on the bench, but I think you are overestimating the impact he would have on this team, assuming he isn't injured.

 

Basically you be like Steph Curry this year, playing more off-ball.

 

How exactly do you think this great distributor is going to set Harden up with easier shots.

When said great distributor's defender will ALSO be defending Harden because said great distributor is going to be left on plenty of islands offensively.

Do you even understand what happens on a basketball team when someone's so utterly inept at a certain facet of the game?

 

In Harden's record-setting 13 turnover game in last year's playoff exit to the Warriors, he had 5 turnovers in the first quarter and another 3 in the third quarter coming out of halftime. Throes in another 2 turnovers as soon as he came back from an 8 minute break in the second quarter and you have 10 of his 13 committed when he should have been fresh.

Looking at this just completed season he didn't commit more turnovers at the end of the season than at the beginning. He coughed it up consistently all season.

Fatigue is not the issue. The issue is Harden forces everything to get the foul call. When he don't get the whistle then he tries to further exaggerate the contract by stumbling, falling, etc. until he finally has to throw a desperation pass under duress while being smothered by multiple defenders. That's when the turnovers pile up. It's bad decisions. It's expecting the whistle to ball him out. It's forcing things and making passes of his scoring attempts instead of simply seeing the cutters and the sealers and dumping them the basketball. He's not a true point.

What you are suggesting is role players that are superstars. LOL. Sure that'll work. Add long as one of those superstar role players is a guy that creates for others first without looking for his own shot first or trying to force the whistle before he gives up the basketball.

Remember it was just 2 years ago in July that Harden declared that him and Dwight were the only superstars and everybody else was role players. This was after we lost Parsons and replaced him with Ariza.

Then after one season he wants Dwight traded and after Dwight gets hurt he pushes him clear out of the offense. My pony here is c NOT that Dwight was done wrong. My point is this is the setup Harden wanted to play. He wanted the role of primary scorer and primary distributor. He didn't want to share the rock with Lin and Parsons. He didn't want another distributor at the 3. He wanted spot up shooters that would defend for him. He got spot up shooters on the perimeter that defended for him.

Now if we replace either of Ariza or Bev with a playmaker its an admission of a bad decision not to have other playmakers on the floor. Not to mention we've already acknowledged the failure of the Lawson acquisition, which was only done after Harden ran around with Ty and vouched for him. (Somebody in the press conference should have reminded Les of Harden's involvement in the Lawson trade fiasco when Les was griping about how unfair we were being to Harden.)

Deck, the root problem here is Harden wants to win a championship by doing it all. He's competing with Steph and Lebron in the box score instead of recognizing his own weaknesses and allowing Morey to build out a real contender around him with an offensive system that helps him to not have to force everything. We'll see if MDA is the answer with a varied offensive system that maximizes ball and player movement and minimizes ball-stoppage-James vs. the world play.

 

I don't see the point in bringing up that god-awful game. I'm sure that if I look, I could find some embarrassing games for Mr. Rubio, just not on as large a stage. I'm also not suggesting that his turnovers are simply caused by playing too minutes during the regular season. I do think it contributes to them. So does the disjointed offense we saw last season. And I think that some of those turnovers were caused by the target fumbling with the ball, or the target not being where he was supposed to be. I watch the games. They are not all because of Harden. There are a host of reasons. Bad decisions certainly enter into them, of course, but at least some of that stems from the guy in charge on the sidelines. And where am I suggesting we need role players who are superstars? Where did I say that? We need some high quality depth. We don't have it. As for James not being a point, hell, I know that. We need a new starting PG, and we should have Bev come off the bench, in my opinion. Lawson was a role of the dice that failed. I'm not at all sold on Rubio being "the answer," as you seem to be. He's a fragile, expensive option, and one who doesn't score. Heck, he frequently struggles to make a layup.

Your last paragraph is reasonable. Yes, James attempts to do it all. However, I don't think it's due to Harden "competing with Steph and Lebron in the box score." I'm sure he cares about that stuff, but it isn't why he takes so much on himself. I think it's because he believes that he has to in order for us to win. The man desperately needs a first rate coach. We'll see, eventually, if Alexander's choice is that man.

 

This nonsense again.

 

Oh yes. People still trying to convince themselves that James' turnovers aren't a problem and all he needs is better role players.

 

Again, you seem to be fixating on what supports your narrative. Go ahead. I've got other things to do.

 

People still trying to take sides on an issue where both are correct. I don't get it.

Harden's turnovers are a problem. Harden's supporting cast is a problem. It's both. Not either/or.

 

Jame's turnovers are an acceptable byproduct of otherwise excellent offensive production.

Taking the ball out of the hands of one of the greatest offensive forces in the league and putting into one of the worst, based on the "boogeyman" of turnovers, is absolutely r****ded. There is just no two ways about it.

Seriously, I cannot emphasize this enough.

Ricky Rubio, quarterback of the following offenses:
18th
25th
9th!
25th
12th

James Harden, quarterback of the following offenses:
6th
4th
12th
7th

EDIT - Oh my ****ing god, I actually looked up Rubio's TOV%. IT IS ALMOST 22%! He turns the ball over almost once every 4 possessions. This thread has become an even bigger joke.

 

Ricky Rubio sucks, it's as simple as that.

Basketballholic's infatuation with him is silly. Maybe he's his cousin or something. Maybe he met him at the airport one time. I don't know, but there is no logical basketball reason to hype up Ricky Rubio like this.

 

This should pretty much end this abomination of a thread, yes?

 

I wonder If Ricky Rubio will ever make the playoffs?

 

basketballholic is dying on this hill. I respect it.

 

I can't believe that 4 years ago I said these words:

But I have learned. I learned a long time ago. Bballholic? Not so much.