Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

being as your handle is jo mama, is this a proposition?

 

Slavery used to be legal. Segregation used to be legal. Apartheid used to be legal. Dismissing something as legal is a really convenient way to avoid real critical thinking.

 

well, this will make ATW happy

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2016/04/08/resigncameron-hashtag-proves-internet-never-forgets/

Whether that will translate into mass protests (one is already planned for Saturday) will be something to look out for, though I'd bet against it due to the rule of mass apathy. Still, this is not the argument Cameron wanted to have during #brexit.

Even Snowden is trolling the fun:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Front pages hint at why Britons chose <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ResignCameron?src=hash">#ResignCameron</a> hashtag for Saturday's coming protest: <a href="https://t.co/9w7mJl6yjE">https://t.co/9w7mJl6yjE</a> <a href="https://t.co/5XDfzWUKry">pic.twitter.com/5XDfzWUKry</a></p>&mdash; Edward Snowden (@Snowden) <a href="https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/718229668860665856">April 8, 2016</a></blockquote>
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In Argentina, protesters are calling for the resignation of president Macri, thanks to the revelation that he has been caught up in the Panama Papers.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/URGENTE?src=hash">#URGENTE</a>: En una colmada Plaza de Mayo, argentinos exigen la renuncia del Presidente <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Macri?src=hash">#Macri</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PanamaPapers?src=hash">#PanamaPapers</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Snowden">@Snowden</a> <a href="https://t.co/KCQDSfW1qK">pic.twitter.com/KCQDSfW1qK</a></p>&mdash; Periodismo Libre (@PeriodismoLibre) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeriodismoLibre/status/718225522761842690">April 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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When will the next scalp emerge?

The tip of the iceberg.

 

To sum up the rage behind #resigncameron in one picture:

 

I like how Snowden is on with the David Cameron #resigncameron bandwagon

Any chance he gets on the #resignputin bandwagon, or is he strangely silent on this issue? I wonder why.

(oh and btw, f David cameron)

 

who will play David Cameron in the movie?

Are we still in the realm of "politicians from Narnia"?

 

Sure you can question it and that is fine, but how much in taxes are paid to governments around the world at local, state, and federal levels?

People will try to avoid paying taxes if they can. I'm sure the level of tax evasion in Nigeria is far greater than this one spotlight case.

 

Strange things to compare this to, but I'll go with it. Why should it be illegal for a state to have lower taxes to attract capital or business?

Sorry if I'm being obtuse and missing something.

 

Not sure you understand the relationship between government collecting taxes and setting a tax rate vs the citizen whose obligation is to pay it. As far as I know, the citizen (even more so a rich one) can apply to another country if he feels his is too repressive.

 

Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor

No pity here. Even the innocents (and there are many) chose to be mired with these miscreants. Public shaming for all!

 

I think it bizarre that people seem so intent on dismissing this. We have no idea what / if anything will come of it, but why would people try to say "oh nothing has come out so it's nothing!!" 24 hours after it was released? No one will know the extent of the damage / good that comes from this for a long time. It also seems like a weird topic to take up the fight to defend the status quo, regardless of whether anything illegal happened here. It seems the better conversation in that scenario would be whether these things SHOULD be illegal.

 

Which things, exactly?

 

This. This has been puzzling me as well. The collective yawn is quite surprising to me. Let's wait and see what this whole thing is before dismissing it as no big deal.

 

Anything from the use of tax havens to disclosure requirements, governments, and/or private citizens, etc to regulations of transfer of money to bank responsibilities, etc.

Different countries have different rules - should there be attempts at standardization? Where government officials have conflicts of interest but nothing illegal was done, should those things be illegal? Should more disclosure be required? Should tax regimes be made more strict or more forgiving to discourage or prevent the use of offshore tax havens?

There are an endless number of different issues here.

 

I agree with the last sentence, which is why I asked for clarification, and which is why I think the question should "these things be illegal" is an impossible question to answer.

Even "the use of a tax haven" is something very complex. Unless you want to prohibit having any bank accounts or legal entities in other countries than the country you are a citizen of (which would be ridiculous) it gets very tricky.

 

The fun part is that you could even supersede that discussion since plenty of currently illegal things are happening.

Money laundering on a massive scale, obstruction of justice etc.

The collective yawn gets more puzzling when you consider that. Should people have to accept a world where the rule of law only applies for some?

This would have kept on happening if there wasn't a leak at the *fourth largest* of 800 offshore firms.

 

First, my bad, it was Uganda.

Second, if that's the case, then you're alleging that an entire amount possibly greater than Uganda's total budget is going missing from Uganda every year thanks partially to financial intermediaries like Mossack Fonesca, and that this is a-ok.

FWIW, the money was eventually reclaimed. But this is the reality of the offshore economy, and not the exception. Mossack Fonesca basically admitted that in internal emails.

 

It does. But cocktail party appearances are very important to many high net worth people, and I've had individuals shy away from investments because they might be embarrassing rather than for legal/return/risk reasons.

Here's a good book for you SJC: http://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/147675571X You may even know some of the players . It would be a good read if it was fiction, but it's more than that. Interesting.

So IMO it may be impossible to determine the interjurisdictional legality of of it all, even harder to prosecute, and the schemes may be fully compliant -- so public scrutiny (shaming?) of those who chose to participate is a reasonable, and may be the most effective way to combat the abuses (whether in spirit or law).

 

Mistaking Nigeria for Uganda is one thing but suggesting it was the sale of an "oil rig" is indicative of your depth of understanding. Sounds to me like your complaint is with corrupt officials, and I'm not sure what your point is here, other than "the entire system is broken".

The "global financial infrastructure" you refer to , is by its very nature, a complex but loosely linked system of laws, treaties (of varying enforce-ability) and practices and people, with everyone looking our for their own interests. What do you suggest, some form of World Government? Good luck with that.

Besides, in this case the Ugandans look like they got their money in the end and the original company responsible for minimizing their tax got sued. So chalk up a victory for the international system.