[WWII] Remember 'Rape of Nanjing' - 70 Years After

i have no clue.

 

well u made it sound like the Chinese dont have a legit reason to be pissed. Yea it happened 70 years ago, so what? so did the holocaust. are we to tell jews to just let it go and forget? germany has apologized, yet japan continues to deny it. I dont hate the current generation, my beef is strictly with the ones who were there in that invasion. the ones still alive i hope they die a very painful slow death, and later burn in hell

 

is there an official state sanctioned shrine/memorial that is visited annually by the head of state?

 

It's a documentary. A lot of the events were documented by letters and diaries of Western missionaries/doctors/businessmen who stayed behind while most foreigners were evacuated, and the actors just read the contents of the letters. There's no dramatization of anything. It's all historical footage and interviews.

Also, the reason the shrine is so condemned outside of Japan is that it worships something like 7 convicted war criminals who were generals during World War II. These are the people who commanded the armies who raped and pillaged, passed down commands to round up Chinese and Korean women to become comfort women, and turned a blind eye to the atrocities that occurred.

Strongly suggest everyone watch the movie. I can email a link to a torrent file if you'd like. My email is imwzy@hotmail.com.

As a Chinese by origin, I took up a great interest in this event a year ago after reading the Rape of Nanking. This film told me nothing new but is a very good piece of information for someone who would like to learn more about the events but aren't willing to spend 6 hours reading the book.

 

So its OK since everyone does it?

 

Not OK, but it does provide some context and point out that perhaps some groups are overly sensitive about it (especially on this board). It is especially ironic and hypocritical for the Chinese to complain about it when they have a huge Mao shrine.

 

Well they say the same thing about America when we complain about human rights violations in other countries. I think it's the my house, my problems mentality. I would get into so many fights with my sisters and complain about them but noone else better treat them bad.

That said, noone actually denies Mao's crimes in China. Most people are aware of the cultural revolution, etc.

 

Everyone acknowledges that all countries have performed heinous crimes, but the countries who are open about it are less likely to have its people tolerant or ignorant of future tragedies. It's much harder to give the excuse "We were just following orders" because of the Holocaust and the Nuremburg Trials.

Furthermore, history denial and its active promotion in schools get in the way of repairing the destruction caused by war. Japan is a very large trading partner, but even that money pales in comparison to the bitter resentment from its Asian members. That is telling a lot on how much that history in contention is worth to Japan for denying, and how much destruction it caused to victim nations.

 

You can't make a post because of the forum?

 

that is just plain dumb. Mao was Chinese, whatever he had done, atleast it was to his own people. If Mao led a campaign of rape/genocide against the japanese, then the japanese can b**** about the shrine.

 

I find your opinion surprising as you are someone who has previously criticized the idea of moral relativism yet that is the implication of what you are saying. You are saying that since the Chinese themselves are tainted then they have no basis to criticize the Japanese. As you point out though nearly everyone's is tainted in some way so on that basis then no country can criticize another country.

 

They didn't just do this in Nanking/nanjing. They did it throughout China. Nanjing was just the biggest instance. For those that didn't know what occured.

-Used babies/children as dolls for bayonet practice
-Beheading contests
-Forced silbings and mothers/sons fathers/daughters to have sex
-Mutilate genitals and breasts. Sometimes they will wear the victims genitals around their neck.
-Gather people in taller buildings and destroy the stairs. They then set the building on fire because they enjoy seeing people panic and jump to their deaths.
-Gather people in frozen lake and chunk grenades
-Bury people up to the waste and sic attack dogs at them.

The whole point is so that the army can view the Chinese as less than human. Many new recruits were horrified at the acts, but after a few months, they become desensitized and "brainwashed" so that they carry on the atrocities themselves. It makes you wonder how easy it is for the army to get their people to do **** like this. It also makes you wonder if you were in the Japanese army at that time, would you be doing some of this ****? It's easy to say you definately won't, but remember, most recruits were horrified by these acts the first few months.

Keep in mind this was done to civilians. The only safe area (and it wasn't even all that safe) was this safe zone set up by a Nazi. He was regarded to as a hero there.

 

Every modern armies have done things like these, but there was no systematic practices like the Japanese army. The list goes on and on

live autopsy of humans after infecting them with diseases
cut unborn babies from mother's womb.
force women to be army prostitutes.
bury people alive and then stick a sword through the top of the head and see how high the blood can shot.

And the Japanese are whining about nuclear bombs? Maybe it would be better if the US army does what the Japanese army did in Nanjing after they take over Tokyo?

 

Is there still (today) a true hatred between Japan and China?

 

Nope, if it was moral relativism I would say that it was OK because that is their culture, or it was OK since everyone does it. Instead, I am saying that it isn't OK, but most countries are not really on solid ground to complain about it.

 

If you are saying that most countries aren't on solid ground to complain about it you are basically saying that since everyone does it no one can complain about it. IN other words giving it a pass.

 

Another question to SM:

Do you feel that since as you note the US used nukes and firebombs on Japan along with exterminating native Americans then it is hypocritical of the US to criticize wartime attrocities commited by other countries?

 

I think so. The textbook and shrine controversies serve as a sticking point on past crimes. Some Japanese think the outrage is unwarranted and are defiant in response because "war is war", but I would say it's because they either don't know or are skeptical to how deep the Nanjing massacre and the rest of Japanese military WW2 crimes were.

Nationalism serves a role on both sides. The CCP needs a unifying identity to maintain their power in light of transformational prosperity and reform. Boy were they extremely pissed when those American missiles hit the Chinese embassy in former Yugoslavia... Japan's hawks feel that their power and presence is being diminished by China's rise and therefore turning their backs on the war criminals who brought their nation to its zenith would be a moment of weakness culturally and politically.

 

There is certainly a hypocritical element to that. At least in that case we can say that we have cleaned up our act since then (or not according to some).

As for the other point, saying they don't have a leg to stand on is not the same as giving it a pass. Countries can choose to hypocritically complain about others doing the same things they are doing, it happens all the time. It just leaves them open to being called hypocrites. The US fought the first Gulf War because Iraq unilaterally invaded Kuwait, for example.

 

I think you have a point there in terms of government to government but in terms of people Chinese and anyone else certainly should be able to criticize the Japanese government for glossing over their history.