WTF Rafer???

Clever answer and I respect your opinion. I just disagree. I think it's tough to even argue that he was an average PG at his peak.

 

oddly enough, Brooks and Lowry got more wins for Houston.

 

1 good game in 3...yep, that is Rafer for ya.

DD

 

rafer alston ftw!!

 

Who was running pg when we won 22 games in a row last year.. ?

 

Fixed

 

Yea, too bad Rafer wasn't in the Playoffs last year...we might have gotten past the Jazz

 

At least he was wearing rockets read on ESPN tonight...

 

In my opinion, for Rafer to ever have been even a slightly above average PG in this league, he would have had to do more than just play a conservative, low TO game.

Over the last several years, only Josh Smith has been less efficient inside the arc but Smith does a lot of other things well and he is young with a lot of upside. Rafer has already peaked and while he does a couple of things pretty well, those things hardly compensate for his extreme weaknesses enough to argue that he has ever been anything more than average. You could make a pretty good case that he hasn't ever been average given the degree of his weaknesses and the only slightly above average nature of most of his strengths.

Scoring/efficiency isn't the most important thing about the PG position but it absolutely matters. Rafer shoots 3s pretty well but he has no mid-range game, finishes extremely poorly around the basket and rarely gets to the line. It's hard to be considered an above average PG in this league when you are literally the worst at the previously mentioned things and you don't compensate for them by being the best or near the best in some other areas. His low A/TO is nice but it hardly makes up for his extreme weaknesses to the point you can even consider him an average PG. He is not an elite playmaker and his low TO rate has more to do with his low risk style of play than anything else. The elite playmakers in the league (Nash, Paul, Williams, etc...) all turn the ball over a lot but they also play more aggressively, take more risks, break down defenses on a regular basis, racking up a lot more assists in the process. They all happen to be very good scorers, too, even though that is not the point since nobody is confusing Rafer with the elite PGs. The argument here is if he is even above average.

Try to come up with a list of above average PGs over the past couple of decades that were among the least efficient shooters/scorers in the entire league. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with more than 1 or 2. Kidd is pretty inefficient but he is one of the best playmaking/rebounding PGs of all-time.

 

I think it helped Alston that Van Gundy went back to a traditional PG substitution pattern with Rafer as starter and Nelson as backup. Let's see if it holds for Game 4.

 

Yea, too bad Brooks and Lowry did not start in the 22-win streak last year...we might have gotten 44 wins in a row.

 

dude, nobody here thinks rafer is an all-star or an above-average PG. but you have to give him credit for what he did today. he was the starting PG for a team that had the highest FG % in a NBA Finals game. Plus i don't get why you think rafer is not important to the Magic winning and being this far in the playoffs.

This is a stat I got from the orlando forums.
The Magic were 1-7 in the entire playoffs when Alston shot below 40% from 3. The only win was game #1 vs. Boston. Conversely, the Magic were 10-0 when Alston shot 40+% from 3.

Considering this finals, in games when rafer shot bad they are 0-2 and when he shot good they are 1-0. if this does not show you that rafer is very important for the magic, then I don't know what will.

 

You don't even have to go further than the last page to disprove that statement. If you go over this entire thread, you'll find a multitude of people claiming that Rafer is an above average PG. That was who my post was directed to.

I don't hate Rafer, believe it or not. I just don't like the excessive praise he's been receiving for a team that is being carried by Howard, Hedo and Rashard.

I did. Once again, you don't even have to go further than the last page to see that.

Given that Rafer usually shoots poorly, you have made my point. You are basically saying if he doesn't suck too badly as a shooter, he won't be too much of a liability and prevent the team from winning. Look at his overall percentages for the playoffs. They are right around his career norm, which is awful.

 

We all know hes not their best player and hes not the main reason their in the finals. But you have to give him some type of credit for the way he played tonight. When he plays well the Magic are a much better team and I believe that showed tonight I mean 62% from the field and he was a big part of that. Yes he might come out in game 4 and go 1-9 or something like that because thats Rafer he always have bad nights but he can also give you a good night like he did tonight.

 

Look at this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...istics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=pg&seasonType=3

and this (you can't even find Rafer on this one because he didn't make the cut-off): http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...inger/statistics?sort=tsp&pos=pg&seasonType=3

and this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...linger/statistics?sort=va&pos=pg&seasonType=3 ]

and this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...inger/statistics?sort=ewa&pos=pg&seasonType=3

Even his assist ratio is subpar: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...inger/statistics?sort=asr&pos=pg&seasonType=3

Hedo is their acting PG, leading their team in assists and playmaking.

What is he doing well is the real question? Are his intangibles compensating for all these blatant and tangible shortcomings?

Discredit the stats all you want but Rafer has been one of the worst PGs in the playoffs. They are winning despite his poor overall performance. Two good shooting games out of the 20+ they played don't change the facts. You can argue all the intangibles you want but he is playing subpar and they are still winning because of Howard, Hedo and Rashard.

 

This is funny! The backup PG of the Rockets could help the Magic get to the Finals the way Alston did. Really? Talk about being a homer.

When you use points like Lowry is a better rebounder than Alston, even though they're essentially equal in rebounding shows how you're grasping for anything here. And LOL at Lowry being younger showing he's much better right now. That's not supposed to be a good thing if you're talking about the present. Rafer is clearly much more tested and experienced. That HELPS him and gives him the edge there. I didn't realize having more experience was a bad thing.

 

Alston was subpar in the first two games, but you have to take into consideration how much SVG changed up the PG rotation in those games. I understand what Van Gundy was aiming for - better offense from the PG spot - but Alston seemed to struggle trying to adjust to suddenly sharing PG duties with Nelson and Turkoglu. It looked so bad I even thought SVG might bench Alston and go with a Nelson/Johnson/Turkoglu rotation.

Instead, in Game 3 Van Gundy firmly re-established Alston as the main PG, with Nelson as backup, and to his credit, Alston responded well to getting back his role. Now, I'm waiting to see whether Van Gundy will stick to this rotation for the next game, and if so, whether Alston can continue to perform well.

 

How is Rafer helping?

How do you respond to these stats? http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=4572981&postcount=454

I think it's abundantly clear that the Magic are winning despite Rafer's poor showing in the playoffs.

Whether or not you think Lowry is better than him, Rafer would not have had the support of a trio like Howard/Hedo/Rashard if he remained in Houston. I will simply acknowledge that Rafer is good enough not to completely destroy a team's postseason chances. This is obvious since the Magic are competing in the finals despite all the statistical evidence that Rafer has been one of the worst PGs in the playoffs.

 

Your stats don't even merit a response. If you want to blatantly ignore his strengths and focus on his weaknesses, you go ahead and do that on your own. There's no point arguing with someone who won't look at all the facts. You're in full DaDakota mode.

 

Rafer was subpar this postseason without even considering the finals: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=4572981&postcount=454

He's played so many games this postseason that the first two of this series didn't drop him much lower than he already was.

Unless you think he did some incredible intangible things to make up for this mountain of bad data, I'm not sure SVG had anything to do with it. Rafer was shooting and playmaking worse than most every other PG before this series even started.