1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What Happens to John Wall?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Jun 24, 2021.

?

John Wall

  1. Traded

    139 vote(s)
    50.9%
  2. Stays

    134 vote(s)
    49.1%
  1. TWS1986

    TWS1986 SPX '05, UH' 19

    Joined:
    May 11, 2020
    Messages:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    4,240
  2. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    12,362
    I believe you are correct, Wall is being portrayed as more selfish than he really is.

    Ast% of some notable NBA players in 20/21 (Wall was 36.2 Ast%):
    Westbrook 48.6
    Trae Young 45.5
    CP3 40.9
    Morant 33.5
    Lillard 34.6
    LaMelo Ball 33.9
    Lowry 31.8
    Conley 30.6
    Steph Curry 30.5
    Kyrie Irving 28.6

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ast_pct

    I don't believe Wall will get traded this season but I expect
    Eric Gordon with House to be moved.

    I believe the Raptors were pursuing a Siakim trade during the off season
    according to rumors.

    They have VanVleet and Dragic (35 yrs old) with M Flynn at point guard.
    Pass on Suggs for Scottie Barnes....possible replacement for Siakim?
    They want to run the hub of the offense through Scottie Barnes eventually.

    I believe the Raptors know they have a trade for Eric Gordon, House, Augustin
    whenever they want to pull the trigger on it. Raptors could use a SG in Eric Gordon
    and House helps fill out their SF spot, Barnes gets more playing time at PF as
    he gets more stamina. Scottie had poor energy in SL, reminded me of Capela
    when we first had him.
    _______________

    Wood and Siakim could rule the NBA with their versatility, defense, mobility
    and offensive flexibility. Throw in Theis to the mix and up and coming Garuba
    and Sengun. Mighty fine!!!!!
     
    #182 ApacheWarrior, Aug 17, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
    tycoonchip, BigM, alethios and 2 others like this.
  3. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,656
    Likes Received:
    10,576
    Walls is the worst contract in the NBA. We are not going to be able to trade him unless we attach assets. I'm guessing a buy-out at some point so he can sign for the MLE as a backup for some contender.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,343
    Likes Received:
    113,262
  5. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,070
    Likes Received:
    11,770
    As a man who is half-Iowan, and lived there many years, and is a Hawkeye alum, and who actually went to Grant Wood Elementary (the name of the painter) in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (driving past it when I went to visit, it looks the same as 40 years ago), and who knows many Iowans including my family, I can assert that the lady in this painting would not be standing alone so close to a man of the African-American persuasion.

    Unless Father went into town and she's hungry AF? "Young man, could you help me reach something on the top shelf?"

    "What the....hey, that's not a corn cob, lady!"
     
    Tha TC likes this.
  6. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    36,142
    Likes Received:
    22,666
    14 pts/ 10 assists would make him an important contributor and an asset near the trading deadline, an expensive asset.
    He could do it if he went in with that mindset.

    Kind of makes me respect Rafer Alston's game who was all flash and pizzazz as Skip to My Lou but toned it down when he was Rafer.
    R.I.P the tear drop shot.
     
    bmelo likes this.
  7. bmelo

    bmelo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,914
    Likes Received:
    4,622
    Bro you almost ****ed up my day with that rip
     
  8. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,759
    Likes Received:
    6,446
    Tillman will pay Wall another $44 million not to win games, to not play back to backs and to say the he only wants " to play with guys who want to be here".
     
  9. eman

    eman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,245
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    We need to tank one more season to do this right. The Commander stays!
     
    SWTsig likes this.
  10. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,129
    Likes Received:
    8,134
    The problem is that if Wall and Wood stay healthy we won’t be tanking, we will be in draft purgatory.
     
    eman likes this.
  11. alethios

    alethios Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,974
    Likes Received:
    6,015
    Another notable (bearded) player that offsets Kyrie's number is Harden at 44.4%

    are we canceling him on CF now?
     
  12. eman

    eman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,245
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Never underestimate the heart of a Tank Commander!
     
    ROCK3TM4N, Hippieloser and hakeem94 like this.
  13. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,003
    Likes Received:
    23,206
    You underestimate the tanking ability of Commander
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  14. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    12,362
    No I don't think so. I left out those outside point guard because, well........
    Wall is a point guard. I didn't list Doncic either. Or LeBron James.

    But I did supply the link to ast% on the entire league. I'm just saying among
    point guards there are only about 6 or 7 better than Wall in Ast%.



    Edited: after looking at the list again, 3 PG's better than Wall in Ast%....that's a lot of
    selfish PG's in the league. Or is it just Wall head to that standard?
     
  15. HI Mana

    HI Mana Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    881
    AST% is really not the number we want to look at when it comes to whether or not John Wall is going to be an asset to the rebuild next year on the court. To me, the number I want to look at is time of possession, the total number of minutes that a player has the ball in their hands per game. Obviously this is going to depend heavily on the coaching system, as well as the total number of minutes that a player is on the court.

    Even still...

    Since 2013-2014, as far back as the NBA tracks player touches, John Wall has finished first three times, and has finished outside the top 5 exactly twice...2019-20, when he was injured and missed the whole season, and last year, when he finished...sixth.

    SOURCE for 2020-2021

    I don't think that John Wall's style of play is gonna change much in his 12th year in the league. It has always been extremely ball dominant; it's an effective style, but can limit the development of other players on the team. Realistically, Houston needs to have KPJ take all of these JW possessions and see if he's able to do anything with them, good or bad. Remember that he's up for an extension next summer, and he's a guy that is potentially going to make or break the rebuild based on whether he's a future building block that the Rockets get to lock in at a below-market number, or someone who gets massively overpaid and prevents them from adding a piece in 2023. The Rockets need to figure out what they have with him, and if the potential he showed last year is legitimate, or just him feasting during a lost season with no stakes. Is he Klay/Draymond/Steph, who were all absolute steals on their first rookie extensions, or is he Harrison Barnes, who turned down 4/$64M and allowed the Warriors to sign KD?

    If it's not KPJ, then it needs to be Green or Tate or Wood or Sengun. You need to stretch these guys out, beyond what they are comfortable doing, give them reps in diagnosing defenses and especially learning how to beat schemes specifically geared to stopping them. It undoubtedly is going to be ugly and frustrating, much like the current SL games, but that development path is going to be how the team eventually gets back to the playoffs.

    This is why I'm a huge fan of signing Theis over Olynyk, because Theis is a complementary piece that still forces the team to run the offense through the young guns. Olynyk is much better at being the initiator and a finisher, but we don't want him acting as a safety blanket; we want Green or KPJ learning how to use picks and diagnose the defense, not learning to spot up around the perimeter in anticipating of a KO kickout.

    Ultimately, I want a roster like the G-League Ignite put together last year; extremely low USG% veterans surrounding a core of young prospects. Push them to get better in practice, make sure that the old vets are always in the right position, but let the guys you're trying to showcase get the playmaking reps, whether that's finishing the play or creating for someone else. And unfortunately, that's the absolute antithesis of John Wall's game right now.

    BTW, if you look at Kemba Walker's time of possession stats in Charlotte before his last two years in Boston, he was also hanging around in the top 5-6 or so, right up there with Wall. And OKC didn't hesitate to buy him out as to not hamper the development of SGA/Giddey. Food for thought...
     
  16. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    12,362
    I've argued your points to a T before. But you are highlighting
    minutes and time of possession?

    Break down all numbers you want and two stand out

    $44 million this season and $47 million player option next year.

    Nobody is arguing fit in rebuild. Who do you think will take that contract?

    Im just pointing out that Wall can pass as proven in seasons when Wall was
    in the mid 40' in Ast%. Making lemonade out of lemons.
     
    VickMackey likes this.
  17. Cstyle42

    Cstyle42 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,922
    Likes Received:
    13,378
    WALL should improve. First 20 games if they go like 13-7 they won't tank.
     
    ApacheWarrior likes this.
  18. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    18,000
    Likes Received:
    13,183

    I was thinking more in terms of being unselfish in mentoring the young guys. I think he’ll attempt to help them improve. But agreed on the other point too.
     
    ApacheWarrior likes this.
  19. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    12,362
    Brett Farve said it's not his job to mentor Aaron Rodgers

    Aaron Rodgers is saying it's not his job to mentor Jordan Love to take his job.

    I don't expect Wall to mentor anyone. This is why Augustin is still with the team.

    *We (Rockets) supplied better screeners than last years scrubs.
    *We (Rockets) are hoping that better PnR threat to open up better looks from 3 from others.
    *We (Rockets/Wall) are hoping the trade value of Wall goes up.

    Then "We" are waiting to see if a playoff contender loses a star point guard to injury....
    and even then it's hard to trade a $40+ million dollar player during the season without
    taking back crap contracts. Rarely room on the roster for that. Tilman would have to waive
    players and eat their contracts. Not likely to happen.

    This is why I've been saying just get ready to send him home.....piss him off......he favors
    buyout then/foregoes next season as a Rocket and opts out of player option.

    Tilman will have to pay the Wall salary one way or another. Whether it's to Wall or to
    flunkies that are brought in thru a Wall trade. At least sending him home avoids
    further injury or injuries. We keep the picks needed to move Wall.
    Plus allows Green/Porter to get started on real chemistry.
     
    #199 ApacheWarrior, Aug 17, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
    hakeem94 likes this.
  20. Patience

    Patience Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,687
    Likes Received:
    9,336
    Rafer’s tear drop was D.O.A.
     
    GotGame15 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now