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Ways to get better players

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by snowconeman22, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I just wanted to remind you all that despite the win streak “ruining our tank” that there are multiple ways for the team to get better players . I’ll list 4 main ones

    1) players on your team get better - this is commonly done in the offseason through hard work .. or can happen even in-game as part of the learning process / confidence growth.

    2) draft - the big one that most of CF is focused on . Normally a higher draft pick means you are taking a more talented player , but many factors go into how the player you pick ultimately turns out

    3) free agency - used to be a big one for us here , but now seems forgotten. Granted , top free agents normally don’t want to play for a bad team.. and have to choose us vs us choosing them . A daunting prospect

    4) trade - we can combine players we have under contract with assets like draft picks to trade for other players

    Now , I’m sure this is common sense to most . But , In reality if we are trying to “compete” in the future , we will need a bunch of good players ... and the hardest part 1-3 really really good players .

    I don’t want to make this another anti-tank thread .. but I’ll just say , that getting pick number 8 over pick number 3 won’t set us back a decade . It’s a lottery anyways . You’re pining for odds on odds . Player development and injury luck likely plays a bigger role than the talent difference a few spots in the draft makes ... furthermore your record and how you get there may influence the other factors of acquiring players.
     
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  2. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    not so subtle anti tank thread
    you tried but pro tank people recognise your agenda miles away
     
  3. xaos

    xaos Member
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  4. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    maybe . But I’d add that even the middle Of that is OK .
    Play in tourney means you’re getting picks 10-14 prolly . Top pick would be ... oh say , top 4 .

    if we get the 8th slot (pick could be higher or lower) it doesn’t mean the season is a disaster.

    id rather stop focusing on the draft . Stop focusing on the play in . I don’t mind if we actually tank or try To win down the stretch . You can’t be set in stone . If we draft a good player there’s no guarantee he even wants to stay here .
     
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  5. dmoneybangbang

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    There is a chance getting the 8th pick over the 3rd could set up back a few years…. and not a “decade”.
     
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  6. xaos

    xaos Member
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    I don't disagree entirely with that idea at all, I just think that's being discussed by many posters in that thread and I am sure the exact same ideas are going to go from there to here. It really doesn't matter so I don't know why I am acting like some clutchfans thread police. Sorry, carry on
     
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  7. dmoneybangbang

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    Letting the cards fall is essentially competing.

    Being predatory means having good assets and our assets will be less valuable the better we are. I don’t think we are in a position for half measures if our goal is to get a franchise player.
     
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  8. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    franchise player,,,, franchise player,,,, franchise player..... all i hear is franchise player...

    well franchise player doesnt give you anything....look at boston lolololololol
    every team has tyhe franchise player, still at least 25 teams have no chance of winning according to the very same franchise player people and should tank...lolololl

    just play good basketball and train your players to play the right way....stop watcvhing nba with eyes of the dead people....
     
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  9. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    maybe. Players are also assets. OKC made the harden trade because we had Kevin Martin help replace and give them some "win now" ability.

    we were able to trade lowry for a guaranteed lotto pick because he was good and because he helped the team win. If he was all still just potential when we wanted to move him we wouldnt have gotten as much.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Who is our Kevin Martin or Lowry this time? EG? Wood? Tate?

    We have a clock ticking with the deadline and draft so we can’t indefinitely stay pat.

    I’m not arguing against cashing in for a Zion or Jalen Brown but that trade isn’t there indefinitely.
     
  11. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    not sure . and it could be a guy we pick up next year. It could be mathews or theis . I wouldnt even say i'd make that trade yet. Rockets were able to keep multiple young players when they made the harden trade. Parsons, Patterson, DMO, Morris, and Jones were all guys taken in the draft the previous few years when they made the trade. In addition , We took flyers on Asik and Lin. Part of the deal of being on the "treadmill" so to speak is that you have more talent than a bottom 5 team , so if you dont gut the squad during a young superstar trade then you have some stuff around him.

    I wouldnt touch zion with a 10 foot pole.

    Frankly this really isnt an anti-tanking thread. But , weve got posters arguing that we should not only be as bad as possible this year , but also next year too because we control our pick. My main argument is that we shouldnt discount winning and we shouldnt discount players from any source ... regardless of if they are a top pick or not.
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    This is a different situation than the years before Harden since we weren’t going to get a high draft pick or be in situation to. We weren’t rebuilding with a tear down via management but this time it seems we are open to it.

    I would argue we should rebuild these two seasons given our draft pick situation. At some point you are going to have to decide a direction and stop trying to straddle different paths.

    If there’s not a Zion then who are we hoping to pair with Wood?
     
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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Now let's separate adding additional talent and Improvement/Work ethic.
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    I think they have short term plans and long term plans.

    Every season is different. I think they did not think they could compete early, now that they can, the plan became blurry.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    A bad 2nd rnd pick could be as good as a mediocre 8th pick. Whereas an 8th pick could just as well fall off the charts and become an Eddie Griffin.

    We have enough historic data to determine percentages where a draft position can turn out to be.

    With a weak draft class, a shakeup and redraft could net ~15 1st round rotational players in hindsight.

    We draft poorly on that 8th pick and end up with the 16th best player in the draft...it's pretty much a wasted and forgotten year.

    I don't know how many total years the Rockets were in the Francis or Tmac/Yao eras. I just remember the awful playoff moments that bled into one continuously bad unending "season".

    Anti-tank folks don't like the pain and are trying to hide their need for instant gratification. It's better than the whiners who aren't happy with any plan, but I don't think it's a superior opinion to leave things up to chance.

    The odds aren't in our favor with a lower play-hard draft ranking.
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

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    I agree, but at some point the short term plan runs out.

    I am curious to what we are competing for after hitting this super soft part of the schedule. We still have some weeks to go before trade talk starts to seriously pick up. Very possible the mood takes a 180 in two weeks.
     
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  17. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/trade-down.311257/page-6#post-13527674
    https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/trade-down.311257/page-6#post-13527875

     
  18. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    IMO , the pieces are here to be competitive very soon ... The "franchise" guy was drafted ( Green).. The good skilled role players are here ( Tate, Martin ). The skilled bigs are here ( Sengun, Wood). Good scoring off the bench ( KPJ and Gordon) ... All that's missing is a true starting caliber PG and a viable bench big .. Sounds good but it's all predicated on patience, coaching, and honestly Green taking a big leap in year 2 or 3... Would've helped if Silas played the right rotation early in the season... I think we could've been .500 if coached right
     
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  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Also by competing now or letting the cards fall, we could potentially weaken our war chest that we need to make trades.
     
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  20. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    FWIW, since 2001 there has been ZERO players selected with the 8th pick that has gone on to become either an All-Star or All-NBA player.
    How many players since 2001 has made it to an All-Star selection and/or an All-NBA selection after being selected 3rd? 9 out of 19 years, 10 out of 20 if LaMelo Ball makes the All-Star or All-NBA team this season. That's a solid, indisputable, 50% rate.

    If you were to give me the choice of making history by choosing someone at #8 to become an All-Star or "play it safe" with a coin flip chance of landing an All-Star at #3 I'd tell you I'm no pioneer so give me that 3rd pick.
     
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