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The results are in: Voter ID Fraud a myth - but we knew that

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Aug 13, 2012.

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  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    A 14 year old can be made to go to church and practice a religion they don't believe. Does that make freedom of religion a privilege as well? Does that mean we regulate and have restrictions on religion?
     
  2. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Your analogy is compromised by parental instruction and involvement rather than governmental, but you are proving how arbitrary some of these considerations are.

    Where are you willing to shine the light of inquiry?

    This is stuff that was put on paper by someone at sometime, so there is very little about it that is inherently obvious much less eternal-- more likely it is just what you are used to....
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It is gov't. A child doesn't have the same constitutional rights as an adult. That doesn't mean the rights really aren't rights and shows the fallacy of your example / argument.
     
  4. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    So you are saying that these rights are artificially imposed and therefore malleable. That is all I've ever been saying and you confirm it without wanting to admit it.

    You guys act like abridging someone's rights is an offense of the highest order. We do it all the time.
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

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    The government does not allow Mormons to practice polygamy, therefore freedom of religion is only a privilege. The government executes people, therefore the right to live is only a privilege. Etc....

    Why you guys converse with giddyup is beyond me.
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    I believe that your examples only serve to point in the direction of my thesis being correct. Maybe you should converse with giddyup more often... :)

    He is a radical, out-of-the-box thinker unafraid to challenge biases.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I don't very often, I really don't know him to be quite honest surprisingly, but I am learning that he likes to try to win arguments via relativism
     
  8. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    I'd r-e-a-l-l-y like to know what this is supposed to mean...

    You say I'm "surprisingly" not honest and try to win arguments via "relativism."

    Please amplify.
     
  9. MrRoboto

    MrRoboto Member

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    Can you please provide examples of what you would consider a "right"?
     
  10. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    See the "Bill of Relative Rights" a.k.a. the first ten amendments to the US Constitution. Those are great ones.

    Were you the guy wanting to charge us for breathing American air?

    I'm pretty sure the rights you would list and I would list would be pretty identical, however you have a much more rigid definition of right than I do and I would consider it unrealistic. A lot of these rights are contingent on intrinsic and extrinsic factors making them not rights at all but more practically privileges...
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    So voting is not a right specifically because we put restrictions on it. But the right to bear arms is a right despite the fact that we put restrictions on it.

    Fascinating logic that goes through your head.
     
  12. MrRoboto

    MrRoboto Member

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    Are you aware of the hypocrisy of this statement in light of other statements you have made in this thread?

    No, not me. But I do suggest re-reading some of the things that I *actually* said as I think you will find the arguments fairly logical and objective.

    I think you and I indeed have different interpretations. However, unlike your interpretations mine are at least consistent.
     
  13. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Everything has restrictions on it. It is you guys who are mythologizing what a right is versus a privilege.

    Voting is a right and so is gun-ownership. Where did I every suggest otherwise?
     
  14. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    This kind of vaguely accusatory nonsense is worthless. If you have something to say about the argument say it and lay the personal attacks to the side. I'm very consistent about what I'm saying.

    I never said any of those things were not rights; I challenged the naive notion that rights were materially different from privileges. Privilege is a very loaded word but not in this context.
     
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    re-read the first part, google the second. i don't have the time or energy for you.
     
  16. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    You just said they weren't rights. WTF?

    A lot of these rights are contingent on intrinsic and extrinsic factors making them not rights at all but more practically privileges..
     
  17. MrRoboto

    MrRoboto Member

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    Man, after several pages arguing that voting is not a right (and instead is a privilege) you are going to backpedal and say that your position is otherwise and has not changed?

    Apart from your consistent, until now, argument that challenges the notion of voting as a right there is that poll in which you chose that voting is a privilege and not a right.

    So yes, I am challenging your consistency and it is in no way meant as a personal attack. It is an attack on your argument. There is nothing wrong with having determined that perhaps you were incorrect - just man up and admit that your position has changed through the education you have had the "privilege" to obtain in this thread.

    "Voting is really not a "right" of every citizen as we have limited it to those of attained age 18. Perhaps it is actually a privilege."

    "I'm pointing out the impurity of the right-- my kids are US citizens, so voting is not a right of all US citizens. It is, in fact, more like a privilege. "

    "But, for the sixth time, every American does not have the right to vote. Did you escort your kids to the polls? I'm not advocating children voting but the reality is that every American does not have the right to vote. There's just not other way to cut it. "

    "Why do they not have the right then? According to the logic here a privilege has tougher restrictions than a right... so what is a 14-YO to do? Nothing. There is nothing they can do except wait four more years. They only have to wait two years to get a Driver's License."

    "If it is restricted then it must be a privilege. Things get mislabeled all the time...

    It's not anyone's logic; it's a fact that a 14-YO cannot vote. I'm not a gun-owner but I guess it's a fact that there are restrictions put on gun ownership.

    Aren't they therefore more akin to conditional privileges than rights? "
     
  18. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    This is the best summation of what I've been saying:

    I was challenging the notion that some held that we have rights which must go unchallenged; I'm asserting that we challenge them all the time... thus making them more privilege than right.... since our limitations and our laws determine who gets to enjoy the particular "right."

    I realize that that is confusing but I'm simply challenging the way that some are using the word "right" as something unassailable.
     
  19. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    See my response above. Sorry for the confusion. It's not confusing to me because I know what I mean but the nuance is not coming through on the word "right." Maybe I should italicize it when using it my way.

    The gist is that rights are virtually indistinguishable from privileges.
     
  20. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    quitter. :grin:
     

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