Stromile Swift - Juwon Howard Comparison Revisited

Maybe not as much as I'd like Hubie too. But I know if JVG gives Stro PT, he'll quickly learn what works and what doesn't work with him and yao on the floor.

 

Howard is getting older and more not gooder.

Yes, that is exactly what is happening.

I think JVG wants Swift to earn his playing time, so when he gets a lot of it, he'll know how to handle it. The more Swift gets, the better he's doing. I think next season, Swift will be our starting PF and we will probably have a new starting SG. I hope so, at least.

 

Stro has been busting his ass since he came back from injury and even before he got injured recently. He was the only Rocket that didn't give up against the Suns when they exploded out to a 40 pt lead.

And so many people are saying that he's stupid, and making all kinds of mistakes on the defensive end, and I'm just not seeing it. I haven't seen Stro get abused on the block in a while, and I haven't seen him loafing or screwing up on rotations in a long time. He's slipped up a couple of times on offense, not knowing where to go, but it hasn't been that bad. A point from a teammate gets the play back on track without too much fuss.

The only thing holding him back right now is his durabilty. That's the challenge for him right now (well that and his hands, which I can live with as long as he keeps hustling and getting offensive boards and steals through sheer effort and quickness). If he can only stay on the floor, I'd expect JVG to gain confidence in him and for Stro to gain confidence in himself.

Juwan should still start, but Stro needs to start getting about 30 minutes at the backup C and PF. He can be a very important player for us if he keeps working hard, and using his physical gifts.

 

You cannot possibly compare Juwan to any of the players on that list. He's not even in their league (pun intended). And we would upgrade ourselves if ew had any of those guys instead of Juwan.

That's precisely why I think it's time to roll with Stro, good or bad. We know we are gonna get beat with Juwan at that position against every name on that list. Dude was 2 for 8 last night. The jumper was clanging, not draining.

Every one of those players has MUCH more to their game besides the 17 footer. Some of those guys are legit 3 point shooters. Some of them have legitimate post up games. Some of them can actually defend their man and rebound the basketball. THEY'RE NOT ONE DIMENSIONAL. Save Murphy, and dare I say, he brings more defensive quickness, rebounding, and more shooting range to the table than Juwan.

It's this simple. When Swift and Hayes are in the game, they are moving, and they are around the bucket causing teams to have to account for them. When Juwan is in the game, he is standing right inside the circle. The defense knows exactly where he is at. For some reason (I think it is quite obvious), Yao has better stats with Swift and Hayes on the floor. It's because we're getting more rebounds and we are putting pressure on the interior defense of teams who usually have a weak link at one of those 2 spots.

Juwan doesn't put pressure on the opposing team defense. Somebody said it earlier. Teams want him to shoot that jumper because it means Yao isn't getting off the shot in the paint. Teams know if they shut down Yao, that Juwan cannot carry us.

Here's another reason for an interior PF. Fouls. With the pressure on the basket, it causes a lot of fouls to be committed by the opponent. Yao is an 85% free throw shooter. Our goal should be to draw as many fouls as we can each quarter to get in the bonus as soon as possible, so we can get to the line and get the easy ones.

It's just basic basketball man. Get the ball to the rim. We play better with our PF inside.

 

This is the worst argument on this topic. Please people, stop saying this.

1. Stro has been in the leauge 4 years now. He is what he is. Maybe he'll marginally improve over time but don't expect some huge explosion.

2. The Rockets can only afford to lose 5-6 more games this season. We aren't going to leave Stro in the game as a "learning experience." JVG is going to do what he thinks will lead to a win. Period.

3. JVG knows Yao/TMac are the Rockets. The offense is built around those two which means inside/out attack. AT BEST, Stro is the 3rd option when the first two plays break down. If you think JVG is misusing Stro by not allowing Stro to do his thing ... It isn't about Stro. It is about Stro fitting in to what Yao and TMac does. If Stro can't compliment their games, then maybe this isn't the right team for him. Quit complaining that we aren't running ISOs for Stro.

 

The guy can play...PERIOD! People on here get so down on him because he isnt avergaing 15 and 8 like we all wanted, but he's playing like 22 min a game. 15 and 8 in 22 min is nearly impossible!

 

Holy cow.....someone that see's the light at the end on the tunnel like I do. 30 min a game would be nice!

 

Good post. I know JVG absolutely refuses to start Stro. Even when Juwan Howard has a game like last night going 2-8 from the field with 6 pts, 6 boards and 4 turnovers in something like 32 minutes. If Stro had 4 turnovers last night some posters here would be drinking his blood and talking about how stupid he is. Stro is really starting to come around and when he is in the game with Yao both are really attacking the basket going for the high percentage shots.

 

Stro probably had the best game of his Rockets career. Lets wait to see if Stro can do that consistently before ripping Howard from the starting lineup.

As we saw w/ MoT, Juwan sucks as a bench player. The team as a whole is more productive with Juwan starting. Until Stro can double his current production to make up for the ZERO production we'll get from Juwan coming from the bench, just leave it as is.

 

Im not saying take Howard out of the starting line-up, but I am saying Stro needs more minutes. How is his production going to double if his minutes stay around 22-25 a game? Is he going to get 40 minutes? I doubt it...because JVG loves Howard. JVG needs tp find more min for Stro IMO.

 

The problem is Stro wouldn't have gotten to 4 TOs. He would have been yanked after the 2nd one.


krosfyah,

Stro is what he is after 4 years and Juwan is what he is after 13 years. I'll take Stro at what he is over Juwan at what he is on MOST nights against the more athletic PFs, which this league is full of.

My whole point with Stro is this: Playing in the NBA is about winning ballgames. As a coach, discipline is fine and necessary. But you can take it overboard and continue to play players just because they are scrappy and play smart, even though the can't get it done, and it can actually hurt the team because you continue to bench a player that is not necessarily smart or getting everything he needs to get but has the athletic prowess to make up for it and has way more upside than the "hustler".

At this point in the season, we have what, 22-25 games left? It's time to put up or shut up. We didn't trade Stro. We can't trade him until the offseason. We are fighting for our playoff lives. If we are going to do anything this year, we've got to have Stro playing. He's basically got a 25 game tryout. If he plays well, and we go to the playoffs, and he contributes, he could be a keeper. Or at the very least, his trade value goes up. If he doesn't play, then we are more likely than not, not going to make the playoffs. And if we somehow do make the playoffs and he is not playing we are going to get chopped up in the first round. Juwan is simply not quick enough defensively to keep us competitive against the upper echelon teams. We ain't got nowheres else to go but to Swift and/or Hayes.

So, we either go lotto or go to the playoffs. If we're gonna go to the playoffs, we need Stro contributing. If we are going to the lotto, might as well let Stro play and develop and hopefully increase his trade value.

The achilles heal of this team is the PF spot. We know that Juwan will get used and abused by Duncan, Marion, and Dirk. There's your top 3 seeds. We know to have a chance we've got to get something from Stro. We KNOW that Stro has way more athleticism than Juwan and therefore causes more problems for opposing teams on both ends of the floor when he isn't in foul trouble or playing boneheaded. We KNOW that Juwan is one dimensional. If his jumper isn't draining, he's a negative on the floor.

It all adds up to........Stro has got to get more minutes. At this point in the season, it doesn't matter if he knows ALL 4,683 pages of Van Gundy's playbook. (Van Gundy does have that many plays, right??) It doesn't matter if he makes a bad foul, or dribbles one off his foot. He's got to see the floor.

BTW, I think JVG has already figured this out. He has given him more minutes in the past 3 or 4 games. And surprise, surprise........Stro has responded. So, keep giving him minutes and let's see if he continues to respond.

 

Juwan Howard is to Power forward Position what Kia is to Exotic Cars.

Gurbaaaaage!!!!

 

This whole Stro debate is like a dog chasing it's tail. You guys who love him think he plays better because he gets more minutes and nothing will ever change your mind. That's OK. The true fact is he gets more minutes when he plays well. Simple as that. JVG has no hidden agenda against him and, in any particular game, is just going with the better hand at the PF spot. JVG does not determine how well Stro plays, Stro himself does. We can only hope Stro decides to bring his "A" effort the rest of the year. If not, we are done because JH runs on fumes too many games.

CD & JVG better solve the PF problem this summer or both of them need to be fired.

 

JVG will not start Stro without results first. And with the dedication and effort Juwan puts on the floor JVG will continue to start him even if he's ineffective. Stro cannot match the work ethic that Juwan has. If Stro's going to start, it'll be up to Juwan to make it happen. He has to go up to JVG and tell him "It's time, coach. Time to start Stro." Unless Juwan gives up that spot it's his for the next two years.

 

If that turns out to be true, we are doomed for the next two years :/ .

 

I know this is a Juwan vs Stro thread, but my one question for JVG regarding our PF position would be: "Why the hell is Chuck Hayes not getting more minutes!"

And I'd refer him to the Praise for Hayes thread.

In my view, we have a gem of player just sitting on the bench doing nothing most nights, while our PFs on the court play fairly mediocre basketball. I'm not saying Hayes is a star player, but he's so much better than the guys ahead of him that it's painful for me to watch him not getting any chance to contribute. Particularly when we're heading into a critical stretch for us where we have to put our best team on the court.

 

The thing that you don't realize is Yao+Juwan=extra slow and non athletic. And how do you know the team is more productive with Howard starting when he is the only one that has started all season next to Yao. Show me the production #s with Stro or Hayes starting next to Yao. Also Stro dumped 26pts and 13rbs in 34 minutes against the Hornets for his best game of the season. The guy needs the bulk of the minutes at the PF spot period, the rockets are a diffrent team with Stro and T-Mac sandwitching Yao with freakish athletism.

 

I don't know how anybody couldn't realize that. He's comparing Howard/MoT to Howard/Stro like Stro and MoT are the same player. Howard and MoT are replicas of each other with one being fatter and lazier than the other one. Howard and Stro are 2 totally different players.

The +/- numbers for player pairs are on 82games.com. It's easy to tell that the player that Yao is least productive with on the floor is........you guessed it, Juwanama.

 

Oh, I agree. I'm not down on him at all, I've been impressed with his most recent play. I just think it's silly to blame his coaches for the fact that he's not a star. Nobody's "holding Stro back."

 

Yes that is true. BUT I think JVG has something against him if thats what you want to call it. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes it looks like he is lost. But I think it would say something if JVG left him in in those situations, and let's see if STRO can get himself out of that "lost" situation. I think it would say a lot about Stro if he DID/DIDNT get himself "back in the game." Last night I was real impressed with his play, as well as Brunson......i think these 2 guys play could determine whether we make a run, or all just short.