Gotta continue to spread the word on Chuck Hayes. Maybe JVG is listening. In this discussion on undrafted rookies this season from stat-guy/NBA anayst Kevin Pelton, he refers to Hayes as his "favorite undrafted success story this season." I know it will never happen, but I wish Van Gundy would just consider starting Hayes and give him maybe 25-30 minutes a game. We always seem to play better with him on the court. I used the numbers at 82games.com and ESPN.com to calculate exactly what his +/- has been since he joined the team on January 18th (his first game). I didn't want to possibly inflate his +/- numbers by considering early season games before he came when we were really struggling with injuries. Here are the results, not including the recent Philadelphia game: Hayes on the court Points scored: 92.98 points per 48min Points allowed: 81.85 points per 48min +11.13 points/48min Hayes off the court (since 1/18) Points scored: 92.45 points per 48min Points allowed: 95.06 points per 48min -2.61 points/48min Overall (since 1/18) Points scored: 92.61 points per 48min Points allowed: 91.14 points per 48min +1.47 points/48min (record: 13-8) Before January 18th Points scored: 88.07 points per 48min Points allowed: 90.80 points per 48min -2.73 points/48min (record: 12-24) These results are quite interesting, and demonstrate just how much Chuck Hayes has contributed to the team. Before Hayes arrived we were a struggling team with a 12-24 record. Our point differential (per 48 minutes) was -2.73. In the games since January 18th, we have a respectable 13-8 record, with a +1.48 point differential. Most would contribute this change to Yao's improved play, and general improving health. But look closely at our point differential since January 18th when Chuck Hayes is off the court. It's almost identical to where we were early in the season when we were struggling with injuries! The key difference is that we've played so well when Hayes has been on the court since his arrival, that overall our point differential is positive -- and consequentially we have a good win-loss record. On defense, we're limiting opponents to nearly 14 less points per 48 minutes with Hayes on the court, since he joined the team. That's unbelievably impressive. And those who claim Chuck Hayes is only good for defense and is an offensive liability, observe that we have actually scored at a slightly higher rate when Hayes has been on the court. He doesn't lose possessions for the team by missing a lot of jumpers (like Juwan) or turning the ball over (like Swift). And he offensive rebounds the ball and gets to the line. He also does a good job of making himself available under the basket when Yao or McGrady are double teamed.
If Hayes can consistently finish inside like he did tonight, he is not a liability on offense. We need T-Mac to be shooting the ball well outside to create room for Yao inside, and allow Hayes to hang around the basket for putbacks or backdoor passes from Yao.
Hayes has been a very good finisher for the most part, since he came. He'll get his shot blocked now and then, but I'm pretty sure he leads the team in "and-1's" per minute, by a very wide margin.
Yeah, he'd be even better. But it doesn't matter. The evidence overwhelming shows that we're a better team with Hayes on the court, even without him having a jumper. And we don't really lose anything offensively either, because he does other things well (like run the court, get offensive boards, and get to the line). But even if we were a worse offensive team, his impact on the defensive end is so significant that it would easily make up for it.
Juwan lovers on this board will gladly skip those numbers. Quiet a few have been mentioning on this board that this team is a lot better and more energetic when Hayes in on the floor. At least he is no worse off than Juwan! And he is only going to improve given time. Juwan is not getting any better. The most alarming thing to me when I was looking at numbers earlier this month was the fact that, they were both averaging EQUAL rebounds per game BUT Hayes was doing it in HALF the time played per game.
ive never thought he was an offensive liability because he is a vacuum under the basket and is a good finisher. i do think he is a defensive liability because of his size and i have never thought of him as being only good for defense.
Maybe Jon Barry can coach him.... durvasa - great stuff! I've been reading the same stuff on 82games, watching Hayes in the game and seeing what he adds. He and Yao had it going on last night! His assists are a little low but then I think that is a function of two things - his role, and the fact he just needs more time on the floor to gel with the offense and begin the painful process of learning to not make dumb rookie mistakes. But if he had been in the Suns game there would have at least been someone besides Yao fighting the Sund to keep them from getting offensive rebounds!!! Did you see that long slap of a rb he did last night that set off Head & Wes on a fastbreak! And he did seem to be on Webber/his man pretty tight when I was watching. Much faster than Juwon. The kid has game and should at least be in 12 mpg each game. Hell the 4th quarter last night we were fine in the middle portion of the quarter with Hayes in, then all of a sudden I look up and Juwon is out there and we tank the last 4 or 5 minutes. Looking at 82games.com I hope to never see Bowen on the floor again unless we are up by 30. Now if we could just send Head to a shrink and get his game back! Ooooh! He could be Luther's Headshrink! Now Luther sing along with me: "I feel pretty"
The lineup of Hayes with Yao, Bogans, Head, and Wesley was much more energetic last night than any other lineup we tried. It seemed much more effective. When Juwon checked back in, everything slowed down again! Grr. I'm starting to move into the Juwon-hater club. He looked awful against Webber last night.
He has a decent jumper, he is just not unleashing it right now. He watches the guards clank shot after shot and probably figures he needs to drive in to make a point. He is shooting over 50% you know. DD
I really like this kid. He has natural rebounding abilities. If he can establish his offense and get more minutes I think he is capable of one of those 20 rebound efforts. Everywhere the ball is, he is there. One of the few bright spots of the season.
just love to see him on the floor.This kid is special, he knows how to stick his nose to the game and sacrificing his body on the board. But Hayes can produce. I'll say keep hayes for another season and he will be the six man. There's a possibility.
I could not understand at all why Van Gundy pulled him favor of JHo late in the 4th. This happened after a timeout that occurred right after a Hayes hustle put-back. He brings complete energy and aggressiveness on both sides of the floor. I thought this is exactly what Van Gundy has been harping on all season. I just don't understand, guys. Can someone please help me, because I think I may be going crazy trying to understand this. I'm asking for your guidance on this sincerely, because I'm at a total loss . . . And apparently so were our Rockets late in the 4th.
I don't know if there was ever concensus reached on the nickname for Chuck Hayes but how about Chuck <b>Praise</b> Hayes?
Yeah, now and then he might miss an assignment in transition. It happens with all new guys, particularly rookies. But in general, he's been an excellent defensive player. He overcomes his lack of size with his quick feet and hands. He has a great strip move when defending post players, and he'll always keep his hands up high to bother shots. He's able to contest shots and turn around and go for the defensive boards. He may not get a ton of steals himself, but he does other things to help force turnovers. As a team, our defensive intensity ramps up considerably with him on the floor, and I believe he's played enough minutes right now (currently 316) to where we can't just chalk it up to being a statistical fluke. With him on the court, we force 15 turnovers per 48 minutes, and only give up the ball 10 time per 48 minutes. That's a huge positive, since usually we're a very poor team in forcing turnovers (and limiting our own). Our defensive rebounding% is 76% (a lead leaguing rate, btw), when overall we just get 71%. If JVG is actually keeping Hayes out because he doesn't like his defense, I think he's crazy. It's not like Juwan Howard is a huge, intimidating defensive presence. Actually, in 316 minutes Hayes has the same number of blocked shots as Howard does in his 1762 minutes (eight).
Big props to Chuck Hayes. I look forward to when he gets on the floor. I can expect a lot of hustle, great picks and a guy that goes after every rebound and in general, knows where to be on the floor. He makes some rookie mistakes but is smart and brings energy. Hayes as an energy guy of the bench is solid. I see no reason why he can't play the "Jerome Williams, JYD" role on this team for many years to come.
Not sure if it would work as a nickname, but Bill Worrell could use it whenever Hayes make a good play. "Ohhhhh, Praise Hayes!" No? Well, it's not any more cheesy than, "Tracy with a Facey!"
JVG has player biases. It is so obvious. Whats that word when you just like certain people and hate others. I cant remember, but thats what JVG is. Hayes plays great, and against teams like the suns, he could have really made a differance. God knows WTF JVG is doing. He picks on little things that Hayes does, and makes a big deal out of them. I know for a fact that is true.
I am not a Juwan lover. But his game is very different from Hayes's. Juwan can make the defense pay by hitting the open jumper if the opposing PF sack on Yao. Hayes has yet shown that he can. But Hayes is clearly the better rebounder and better defender with a lot more energy. So, Hayes and Howard can do different things and should split their time depending on matchups. On the other hand, Hayes can do everything Ryan Bowen does and better.
Scoring 2 points on an open 18 footer is not worth it when you give up offensive rebounds and points on the other end. No one fears Howard when he is defending them. As an example, a washed up Webber, was abusing Howard last night time and time again. Of course Howard is a different player. He is LESS effective than Hayes yet he keeps getting more minutes. Like I said earlier, the advantage of giving Hayes more minutes is that he has the potential to get better. More experience he gets, the more he will learn. Juwan, on the other end, is a hopeless case.
