Who might we move up for? Ming? Without a doubt Williams? Maybe. Thought would be to make Mobley sixth man or run 3 guard offense all the time. Small ball at its finest Wagner? See Williams. I see Wagner as a better SG and Williams as a better PG, but they would both (along with francis) be combo PG/SG and mobes would be a SG/SF Gooden? Doesn't make sense with our PF glut unless we had other trades in the works. Maybe he could play SF but probably a lot of the same difficulties as KT playing there. C doesn't make much sense for him. Dunleavy? Good fit if he comes out. Would we have to move up for him? I wouldn't think so if we have 5, but maybe if we are lower. Woods? see Dunleavy Butler? see Dunleavy. Right now, I don't see a whole lot of difference between Butler, Dunleavy and Woods as far as our team goes. One or more definitely should be there with our first pick. If we don't care which one of the three we get, we shouldn't have to move. If we really care about getting one guy specifically, we might need to trade up. Jeffries? see Dunleavy, et all. but he is a clear #4 of the 4. We might actually be able to move up the #14 pick to around 10 and get one of the four main small forwards. I think one of them will drop that far if not further. Wilcox should be there with our pick if we want to move him to C. No need to move up. Borchart should be there with our pick. No need to move up. Stoudamire/Marcus Both fill our C needs, both might be fits for the second pick, but definitely not for our first pick. May have to trade that up just a little to get one, but I doubt it. Net, unless it is for Ming, I don't see a real good reason to trade up in the draft, unless there is a followup trade to another team for a veteran or something else. Now if we move Mobley, all bets are off as we need a SG again bringing Williams and Wagner back into play. Am I off here? Did I miss something?
Good to see you back, pops. I sure hope to God that the Rockets don't draft Gooden or if they do they'll trade him for something that we really need....a SF or C.
Does anyone who has seen a lot of Gooden think he can play SF more servicably than Kenny Thomas? nbadraft.net seems to think it might be a possibility if I read it right.
PFs can play Center. Hell, we have a shooting guard playing point guard, don't we. It's not like we play prototype players in any position except Cato....and Cato is still only worth about 25 minutes (despite his renewed commitment to enjoying the game, again). What is wrong with Gooden backing up Cato...and when he is ready to start, we play 2 or 3 PFs. I don't get it. There are not many centers in the league, and there are less coming out each year in the draft. Just play two power forwards and use zones to smother the 2 or 3 centers in the league who you worry about. I am actually quite estatic about Kenny, Griffin and Gooden/Mo playing together and using Griffin in a similar defensive role to Garnett. At the free throw line in a 1-3-1 type matchup zone, with two PFs behind him. imo, that places Griffin in position to roam the entire floor, just like Garnett. On the offensive end, you force the opposing team to place a SF on Kenny or Griffin. We need to play a zone, soon. It makes most use of Griffin, and allows us to go without a true small forward. That said, I want Woods (if he can dribble as well as Odom as advertised) or the best PF on the board...and that sounds like Gooden to me. We need a tall playmaker to change this 2-shooting guard offense. The taller, the better.
I think Gooden will struggle playing PF, let alone Center. He's just slightly bigger than Terence, is just as weak, and plays almost as soft. Gooden will get eaten alive by true pfs, IMO.
I agree with heypartner about moving a guy to center who may not be <i>ideal</i>. That's about the only way you're going to fill that position with a good player. It seems to me like there is only going to be one guy that is above 6'11" who I can really see having an impact, and he'll be the 1st pick in the draft. However, I would much rather the Rockets go for more of a tenacious big man to fill the spot like Wilcox or Stoudamire, rather than Gooden. But I would only do this if Woods is already gone.
Tmo, I don't know anything. Don't listen to my assumptions of college players. I have seen exactly 0 minutes of college ball this year. I'm just going by assuming the reports are true. If Woods is gone (or not the real deal) and no good trade is happening, I have no problems taking the best PF on the board because I have visions of a Garnett style defensive zone with Griffin roaming the free throw line disrupting everything, with quick PFs behind him. btw: Griffin can not handle the "true PFs" right now, either. But I have no worries about him. If Gooden has the athleticism and polished offensive game as advertised, I have no problem playing Griffin and Gooden on the floor together. Cato is not enough. Sure we can always count on getting some old thug backup like Willis, or some Middle Class Exception guy who fills space, but I'd rather go with scorers who can leap, the taller the better. You get enough of those guys on the court, and you can play some real defense...no worries here, zones can really help.
Last summer started out with high hopes of Chris Webber and ended with the very low reality of Glen Rice. Wake me when the roster is set in November.
I think Gooden will be a decent pro scorer (good handles, great mid-range shot, nice touch in the paint for a player his size). But he'll get pushed off the block posting up, and I suppose that he could play defense like joe smith does--except he's really not as aggressive. Maybe he'll get more aggressive after what Wilcox did to him in the final 4. (Really, for those who watched the game, Gooden was SCARED after Wilcox blocked his first three shots, just played horribly on both sides of the floor, and virtually all of his points came after the game was decided; supposedly Wilcox used to abuse Terence in practice at times, and hurt his confidence as well.)
No, but I certainly recognize that it is a possibility. Just look at this last season. We were supposed to be in the playoffs, and due to a rash of injuries (mainly to Steve, those of which we are still NOT certain are solved), things just went badly for us. It could happen again, and I would REALLY hate to give up a lottery pick just because of bad circumstances. Besides, even if we do not have injury problems next season, all I would really hope for is the 6-8th seed in the playoffs, and that would result in a pick not that much worse than the Toronto one we could convey this offseason.
If the Rockets are planning on making Gooden a SF if they draft him, then, IMO, they would be better off to get Caron Butler or Woods if they are still available. I mean Kenny Thomas is someone who is a tweener, between SF and PF, and could possibly struggle at playing the SF spot. I'm not saying that Gooden could have the same possible problems as Kenny, but I think it would be extremely diificult for him to go from a 4 to a 3 instead of to a 5. I really think that there are better options out there than taking a 4 and trying to convert him to a 3. Maybe I've misinterpreted someone here, but it seemed like to me that is what someone was suggesting we do.
Buck, I would agree with you. Other than Yang, I do not see the justification for trading up from #5. Currently the team can solve both needs with their and a little dealing. No need to give away both picks for something better than #5 unless we talking Ming.
Manny, I completely agree. I don't know where all this talk of drafting Gooden and moving him to the 3 got started, but there are definately better options out there. Gooden is a pure 4, plain and simple. Besides, if we want a 3, this has to be the best draft in years for that position. Since there are no quality centers besides Ming comming out of the draft this year, I agree with Heypartner. Who needs a prototype 5 if you have 2 physical front court players (PF/Cs). If we can't trade our picks for a proven player, then I say we draft either a Wilcox or Stoddlemier type player for our front-court or get the best SF available (Woods or Butler). If Gooden can be as physical in the NBA as he was in college, then we might have to take a long hard look at him to. He'll have to put on some weight though.
Raven, I wouldn't pay the debt this year, even if we might end up in the lottery next year. My reasons being, that getting multiple #1 picks in the same year is somewhat rare & gives you more flexibility to make moves. Currently, only 3 teams have 2 #1 picks this year & 2 more teams could be added to that list, depending on the lottery drawing. Houston is the only one that currently has 2 picks in the top half of the first round (assuming that Toronto gets #14), #5 & #14. The Clippers could end up with the #8 & #12 picks, depending on the lottery drawing. The Rockets will have everyone back next year & will definitely be better than this year, imo. Another thing to think about, is the conditions on the pick that we owe Memphis. According to RealGM, it has to be a top 15 pick or within 2 slots of Houston's pick. If we assume that the + or - 2 slots condition still applies next year, then, no matter where we end up, we could trade down a couple of spots & pick up a future pick in addition. http://www.realgm.com/src_picks2002.php Houston Rockets 2002 NBA Record: 28 wins 54 losses Current Draft Position: 5 (Pre-Lottery) 1st Round Houston has its own first round pick but they have the option of sending their own pick or another team's pick that meets certain conditions to Memphis. Sources do not agree on the conditions, but it is either that the pick is top-15 or that it is within 2 slots of the Rockets' slot. If Memphis doesn't get a pick this year, they will get one next year. (8/27/99: Grizzlies trade the draft rights to Steve Francis to the Rockets in a 3-team trade) Houston will get Toronto's first round pick if it's not among the Top 13 selections. (8/2/01: Raptors trade first and second round picks in 2002 for Hakeem Olajuwon) Houston would have received Chicago's first round pick if it had fallen out of the Top 20 selections. (9/28/00: Bulls trade future considerations to the Rockets for Bryce Drew)
So we trade for an established player, or we move up to the top 3, depending on who we get. Hmn. Unless we can grab a real center (Ming...we already have PFs who could play center in a pinch), I wouldn't be averse to drafting Caron Butler...and the #6 pick won't get him. We need his heart, hustle, and defense. I don't really see him as a KT clone. Same size and weight, but Butler already shoots the NBA three. Rudy should love him. It'd be nice if OP could show up again with some of his information, but he sounds like a busy dude.
No one is considering Butler a KT clone. The question is, would playing Gooden at the 3 make him similar to KT playing there as far as weaknesses go. I think the consensus is that Gooden would be better suited to stay at PF and run a 2 PF 3 G offense or something like that out of the zone. I personally would rather Butler than Gooden, but that's just my opinion.
Watching Butler in the tourney, his game reminded me a lto of Rashard Lewis'. Would anyone else consider this somewhat accurate?
Assuming that someone wants our draft picks and is willing to give up a starter to get them, how do we get past the cap issue? We add an overpriced player who is basically just throwaway filler. So Rice seems perfect. I thik Mo Taylors contract is absurd, but obviously the Rocket brain trust does not agree. I am not adverse to letting Cato go, but then who plays center? Williams is a free agent, Francis untouchable, Griffin and Mobley's salaries are to low. So I see Rice and two picks for a proven starter as a possible way to fill OP's scenario. What is the max salary we can take in return for Rice, the five and the 14/15. Then what centers and small forwards are in that range. ps, hope this is not a lame post, but as a newbie I wanted in on an OP post.
Thanks for welcoming me back. Hell of a long day. Just a couple quick notes before I cover my head with music and fall half dead in the bed. Wish List (as we start watching the rest of the league sweat the sweet stuff): 1. Trade away both the picks. Caveat: The picks must be accompanied by Rice and his gravity laden contract (talk about a Led Zeppelin ... but it will fly if given enough hot air) 2. Unload the people we don't need next year (Bye Bye Miss American Pie - Lanky Langhi, Wizbang, Butchie, etc... ). 3. Pick up that quality three, or 3-4 swinger. (Rashannon - Mickey Fleetwood and friends) 4. Seriously coinsider SOME of the insane offers coming in for the Hardy Boys - Connie Francis, Moby Grape, KT Oslin ( Katie Bar the Door goes you is going to be surprised). Cheers
