Sengun simply not good enough

The fact that you have to go back 8 years to find a championship team built around a post up big is telling. Offenses have changed dramatically in that time. The average team took 21 threes a game back then. They take over 35 per game now. Roy Hibbert made the all defensive team that season and was an all star. Two seasons later he was played right off the court.

I love post play, but its challenges are clear. A player must be elite at it for it to be an option, whereas an average three point shooter can boast good efficiency. Five shooters can play together and space the floor for the entire offense, whereas you can't play even two post players on the court together.

If Sengun is that elite guy then of course he'll be built around. But if he's say a Kanter level post player that's simply not viable.

 

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and actually I think the Yao strategy of fronting really did change the game in regards to post play. Other bigs were fronted before Yao but you never saw it as a start to finish strategy of defending a big until teams started doing it in the playoffs those last two seasons which really frustrated Yao.

You see the affect it’s having on Embiid too early on this season. Teams know they can just take him out of the game essentially when Philly is trying to post him up. He’s sucked these first two games because Doc is trying like hell to run a 90’s style offense. Embiid needs to be in pick and rolls on every play imo.

Since Sengun is going to be undersized and under athletic in his career (as it looks now he’s likely done growing and getting more athletic) I think he’s going to need a really good 3 point shot to be effective. Him being a real threat is what will open up the creativity of offense when teams have to guard the shot and he can counter from there.

But I’m less concerned about his shot than I am about his rim defense and rebounding. He needs to get better there and find a way to at least be adequate to stay on the floor. Or else he’s at best going to be a Brad Miller type of specialist big. Not a prime Vlade or Gasol type big.

But yeah the post centric offense isn’t what I would say the Rockets need to be spending time on just because of Sengun. He is capable of incorporating his skills into the offense organically off of pick and rolls and having a guardable shot will open up the ability to have some creative counters.

 

OK but based on that reasoning, there are 28 teams all trying to win a championship without any focus on post play every year - and most of them not getting close. All pretty much trying to do the same thing?

I don't disagree that he should develop a reliable long-range and mid-range shot, as that would open things up more - and I am sure he will.

But if implemented right, his post play should actually have the benefit of opening things up for Jabari, Tari, Green, even KPJ (who is great at catch-and-shoot) as shooters as well. Just having the guards play ISO all game won't win us anything either.

 

Dude tried to bring up Tim Duncan 8 years ago, the greatest PF of all time lol. The game has also changed since then. Sengun is not on the level and never will be!!! He’s a bench player!!!!! He’s not a good defender! He’s soft!!! He’s undersized!! He can’t jump that high!!! He’s slow!!! He can’t shoot!!! He’s a turnover machine!!! We’re never gonna build around him, even if we get a new coach. They’re not high on him like that. He’s not gonna be jokic!!!! It’s about the rockets and their rebuild, not Sengun. Smh

 

Couple things. He had the second highest rebound percentage yesterday.
He has for sure grown and is for sure 6’10 if not 6’11.
He is not done maturing physically and isn’t a poor athlete. He’s never going to be a deer jumping out of the gym but he isn’t some plodding unathletic oaf.

 

In those years, it's mostly been the Warriors or Lebron winning the championship...Giannis once, and the Raptors once. So I would argue winning the championship hasn't been so much about the system, but more about having the best player(s) on your team.

 

We need a real pg to utilize sengun properly or run more set plays. Kpj trying to be a wannabe harden ain't it. It's up to the franchise to decide if they want harden iso ball once more or team ball.

 

Yes. When I think of team ball, I think of a center who has to have the ball in his hands or he gets disengaged.

 

people want to run the offense through Sengun, the post-up big with the sky high turnover rate…

 

well the Rockets just invested 4 more potential years in KPJ

What does utilizing Sengun properly look like?

 

Small sample size but sengun career TO rate is 2.1 vs wanna be harden at 2.8

Maybe if kpj can carry the team like harden did, I would defend him more.

 

you’re confusing turnover rate with turnovers per game

Sengun has a higher turnover rate than KPJ…he turns it over on more of his possessions than Porter

Porter plays more minutes, gets more touches, and has more time with the ball, so his turnovers per game will be higher than a big like Sengun

 

I don't know that I would've used that stat. I would expect a guard (whose has the ball more) to have a significantly higher TO rate than a center. I definitely don't want our center within .7 percentage points in TO's of our primary ball handler. Just sayin'

 

He was arguably the 3rd best iso post-up player in the NBA last year as a teenager.

That is just a small part of the potion. It is the fact that the team should be functioning in an Adelman-esque offense that matters most.

That is for two reasons. 1. We have a PG that is historically awful the more he dribbles. Every dribble he takes plummets our ability to look like an NBA team. He and JG both need to learn to move off the ball and play to their strengths.

No one is saying that Sengun needs to post up constantly, or even shoot. He needs to be used as a hub so we aren’t using KPJ as a dribbling engine. He is not James Harden. (Even If he was…)

No one will help KPJ/JG/Jabari play to their strengths more than Stephen Silas deciding to use both Sengun and Bruno as hubs for dribble handoffs, wing pick and rolls, backdoor cuts, and overall offball movement.

Put a stop to the mother licking dribbling and the wannabe Steve Francis to Cato BS. A lob threat is not going to get it done. Not enough creativity being developed. MOVE OFF THE DAMN BALL.

 

I honestly don't know. But I know he has the capacity to make more assists, and to make people around him more efficient. It is the coaches job to figure that out.

 

NO REAL PG - they don't exist or the NBA has moved on from them, and NO REAL POST UP CENTERS - game has moved on from them too.

Sorry Charlies....gotta keep up!

DD

 

You do know that they keep stat's for that kind of stuff and he wasn't anywhere near the 3rd best in any category when it comes to post play (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up?SeasonYear=2021-22). Don't get me wrong, the kid has post and passing game, but I think some of you are being a bit unrealistic when it comes to the player that he is now and how he should be utilized.

I'm fine with how he is being used and think that once all of our players start to consistently make better decisions with the ball we will be fine.

 

well the coaching staff decided his skillset would best be utilized with the 2nd unit

he had a 30% usage rate in game 1 vs the Hawks, had several post-ups, and had the ball in his hands enough to commit 6 turnovers in just 22 minutes…yet people are still upset

 

We have gone through this in other threads. By some metrics he was right behind Embiid and Jokic. Pretty simple to look it up. I ain’t going to pull it up for every Tom and Dick.

 

For the people that believe in Sengun and have seen hundreds of the games he has played, I don’t think any 6 turnover game is going to cause concern.

What terrifies me more than anything is KPJ dribbling. Sayonara JG in Free Agency…