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Paul Ryan: Obamacare repeal is first priority under Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Whatever replaces it will not cover the poor and jobless, and that's going to include a lot of Trump supporters.
     
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Obamacare has failed and is no longer a viable option.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    I'm insured... so who gives a ****?
     
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    They probably don't care about insurance.

    They care about making America White again.
     
  5. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    Thus ends the in depth description of the republican plan for post-repeal.
     
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  6. SeabrookMiglla

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    the republicans have no major alternative plan when it comes to healthcare, they've never have had a plan since obama took office...

    they're a party bought out by insurance companies, anything progressive towards making healthcare more affordable for the average american hurts the insurance companies wallets- something the republicans are paid to protect....

    i watched this debate unfold 8 years ago, the republicans kicked and screamed the entire way of passing ACA but couldnt put forth anything else better. - i dont expect them to this time around either, its all a ploy- they dont have a plan if you havent noticed already.

    save for a few bought out democrats like lieberman we could've had a public option, but some of these democrats are also bought out by the powerful insurance companies...
     
  7. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    The health insurance companies wanted Obamacare, Republicans did not.
     
  8. SeabrookMiglla

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    ultimately though, their long term goal is coming under threat in that the government is playing a bigger role in the health care industry than in previous years. the private industry wants to remain just that, private. but if there is a way to exploit any cracks in a bill you can bet they will find a way to do so.
     
  9. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    So what's the GOPs solution? Both parties have had decades to come up with a working proposal. It's always the GOP that shoots down health care legislation while offering no solution besides useless proposals like tort reform. As though that'll fix the skyrocketing healthcare costs which were worse before Obamacare.
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    That's not exactly fair. The GOP has offered solutions. They weren't put into place until Obama adopted all of their suggestions and we got Obamacare.

    Obama was foolish enough to believe that when the GOP said they were in favor of the ideas in Obamacare, that they would actually be in favor of those ideas. So at the time Obama adopted those GOP proposals, the GOP abandoned them and hasn't offered anything since. But there was a time when they had some proposals.
     
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  11. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of the stuff on this board. Do people not remember how bad it was shortly after Bush left office? Unemployment was atrocious. Millions were without employee based health insurance. Healthcare costs were skyrocketing. People that were terminal were paying out of pocket to receive treatment or be left to die. I mean even if these terminal patients had 0% chance of survival, it's much better way to die with some sort of pain management than to have to suffer painfully from whatever affliction that's going to end them. Every single person deserves to die with some dignity and receive proper care. Especially a fellow American.

    And yes I know they can go to the ER to receive care. Your tax dollars are paying for the more expensive route of healthcare treatment. You're paying out the a-ss in tax dollars to cover the uninsured's ER visits. Whether it's through Obamacare or tax dollars, you're paying for other people's healthcare.
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I agree with you. I think Obamacare (as bad as it is) is still better than what was before. I've said that it wasn't a good idea to repeal without replacing it at the same time. I was only pointing out that at one point Republicans were in favor of all the things in Obamacare. They just changed their minds as soon as Obama adopted them into his plan.
     
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  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Do you really see the insurance companies as the enemy in this? I do not. I think their role is a bit problematic for 2 reasons: (1) the existence of insurance creates a principal-agent split and injects money into the system, which allows the healthcare industry to sell more, and (2) the insurance companies do take some profits, which adds a bit to the costs. However, I mostly see the insurance company as an ally to consumers because (a) without them, sick people would not be able to afford to get the healthcare they can now get, and (b) they can be more effective at saying no to unreasonable healthcare costs than individual consumers can be.

    I think the hostility to the health insurance industry makes it harder for those companies to put downward pressure on healthcare costs. People want all their healthcare procedures, even the unwise ones, to be covered by their insurance. That costs. They want their own doctor or hospital covered, no matter what they charge. They want personal exposure to the volatility of healthcare costs to be minimized. Customers are on the insurance companies all the time for being healthcare tyrants, telling them what care they're allowed to have and from whom. All of these things weaken the hand of the insurance companies to put the screws to the healthcare industry to keep the costs down. The problem is not the insurance companies. The problem is the healthcare industry -- doctors with mountains of debt to service (to the other industry suffering from runaway costs, university education), palatial hospitals, medical device companies, pharma companies spending billions on research, and the shareholders at every level.

    I don't hate my insurance company; or if I hate it, it's for being too nice. I hate my doctor and his hospital network who know they offer an essential service and that when it comes down to it people will pay anything to stay alive. I work in another industry -- electricity -- that is considered an essential service. Because it's essential, we regulate the crap out of it. We protect utilities' profits, but we put them through the wringer to justify their prices. If someone invents a new whizbang product that makes electricity delivery better, like say smart-grid technologies nowadays, but it's too expensive, the regulators just say no. If someone invents a whizbang product that can make healthcare just a tiny bit better, they can charge a zillion dollars because the hospital will buy it, the hospital will charge a high price to use it, the patient will want it, the insurance company will allow it, and the premiums will go up again. No one will say, no it's too expensive.
     
  14. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    You said in your previous post that the insurers and Republicans are in cahoots and that Republicans are bought buy the insurers. Why then would every Republican go against the insurers and vote against the ACA? Is it not possible Seabrook that maybe just maybe the Republicans actually thought the ACA sucked? I mean it did turn out to be really awful.

    no it doesn't. its called Crony Capitalism. look it up.Big companies want government controlling every aspect of the market so they can lobby and make sure those controls benefit them. For example, forcing every American to buy their product under penalty of law.

    wait I thought every liberal said the colossal failure that is the ACA was a Republican solution. I was told its Romney's plan. Whats up with that?

    but to answer your question, the Republicans had lots of plans but few they all agreed on. Here was Paul Ryan's : http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703806304576242612172357504
     
    #94 tallanvor, Dec 14, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  15. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Tell you what, since we don't agree on what being a success is, for the sake of pushing the discussion forward to the actual topic, I will concede that everything I have ever said on the subject was wrong.

    Good, now with that out of the way, and we know that Obamacare is going to be repealed, as per campaign promises, please explain what the Republican replacement plan is. Thanks in advance.
     
  16. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    They haven't decided yet. Republicans are far less prone to falling in line like Democrats are so its harder to get things pushed through (probably a good thing). IT will most likely contain allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines to increase competition and choice amongst many other things
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    As far as the Republicans starting replacement plan, here is a link to that before someone embarrasses themselves by trying to suggest that the Republicans have no such plan:

    A Better Way to Fix Health Care

    They apparently do intend to start work on the replacement bill immediately after they finish with the repeal, which will have a delay period built in so that they have time to work this through in a responsible way.

    If this is not good enough for you, please show us the advance plan for Obamacare that existed in December 2008, prior to Obama taking office. Thank you.
     
  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    So they are going to repeal Obamacare without a replacement plan, which they have had 5 years to develop? And you are okay with this? Like with a straight face, you are okay with them dismantling Obamacare, without a plan ready to go.

    Your link was already pretty thoroughly scrutinized on the previous page and you didn't seem to have any responses to any of the criticisms, other than to deflect an attack on Obamacare.
     
  19. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    No. They are going to agree on a plan then repeal Obamacare. They have lots of plans bouncing around, once they agree on which one they will make thier move. But to answer your question, I would totally be ok with repealing Obamacare with no replacement plan.
     
  20. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Thats not a plan, its a wishlist. When it says stuff like 'Protect patients with pre-existing conditions. Our plan ensures every American, regardless of their health status, has the
    comfort of knowing you can never be denied coverage.' that does not describe how.
     
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