[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

And so is Vince. This is an argument of Bush vs. Young. If you agree that VY is a factor in every play, that makes your point seem irrelevant b/c it applies to Vince too. Unless you're just saying they're both great players, but I don't think you'd ever go that far .

 

Wait. You actually expected him to make an intelligent response? This is the guy who calls VY "Radio" and quotes 3 pages of text only to offer some 5-word-or-less gold nugget like "Bush = good."

 

My point has nothing to do with Young, but i would say that about him as well. My point is addressed to those who think bush can only have a minimal affect on the team. Just because he only gets 20 touches, doesn't mean he is not a factor. He will open it up for andre johnson and mathis as well

 

if you would have said something

a. worthwile

or

b. new

I may have adressed them. Also, anyone who uses the "bush wasn't in on 4th down argument" is either

a. knows nothing about football

b. a huge homer

or

c. really dumb

 

IC2000 is reggie bush fans' answer for DaDakota

 

It wasn't just 4th down. He wasn't in the game on 3rd down, or 2nd down. In fact he didn't get a touch the whole last drive with a championship on the line.

Oh, but that is right, Pete Carroll and his 1.5 championships and 30+ win streak is an idiot who knows less than these Bush jockers/Vince Haters.

Bush is a great talent. Complete football player, sure fire NFL impact player, he is not.

I would not hesitate to take Bush with a top 4 pick, but with 1 player to try to turn around a pro franchise I definetly roll with VY.

I really don't think you of all people should use such descriptors about another poster.

 

The Texans should draft Jeff Bagwell. He can't throw or run, but he sure does look mean.

 

if you need one first down you give it to lendale white. there is no argument with this. However you do give it to bush if you don't have another future pro bowl running back in your backfield

 

Even giving you this artistic license with Reggie's and Lendale's future pro bowl selections, given that Reggie never got that opportunity to prove he could carry the ball effectively in those situations, his ability to do so in the NFL remains a question mark. Who knows if he'll be as effective without Lendale or another similarly great power back softening the defense for him.

 

Not to mention both backs benefited from the best oline in college football for 2 years. We hardly know if either can make a bad play into a good one because they never had to.

IMO the surest elite pro player off SC's roster is neigher Bush, nor Leinart nor LenDale, but Dwayne Jarrett. I think all will probably make it, plus Byrd plus Winston and Latui (7 of 11 starters on offense probably good NFLers). But I have more confidence in Jarrett being a sure thing at his position than anyone else at their postition.

Now consider VY put up score after score with a team like this.

 

The argument works both ways with Pete Carroll. Isn't Pete Carroll the same guy that swears up and down that Reggie Bush is the best player he's ever had? Isn't Reggie Bush the same player that was voted team MVP for 2 consecutive years by his teammates over Matt Leinart. Also, I like to say he was PAC-10 player of the year for 2 consecutive seasons. He shared it with Leinart 2 years ago and won it outright this year.

Also, another issue that can't be denied is that LenDale White is going to be a 1st round draft pick. It's not like Reggie Bush isn't in short yard packages because of a stiff. He's not playing in those situations because there is a 1st round caliber player that runs between the tackles a little better.

I think it is a weak argument that Bush is somewhat less of a player because he shares a backfield with someone. Barry Sanders was exclusively a backup until Thurman Thomas went to the NFL. He didn't even split carries. He was just a 2nd stringer pure and simple. And Barry Sanders was rarely in the game for the Lions in goalline situations. He's a Hall of Famer and one of the top 3 greatest running backs of all time. Not having the ball in goalline situation doesn't take away from his Hall of Fame career. People forget that Barry Sanders with average Lions teams carried them the NFC Championship game in 1991, and the Lions regularly made the playoffs.

And let's not assume because Reggie Bush wasn't in the game for those 4 downs that he is never in the game for a big situation. He saved USC against Fresno St. I didn't get a chance to watch the USC-Notre Dame game, but I saw highlights of Reggie Bush being in the game for the goalline play to push Leinart in the endzone.

Whether Reggie Bush can run effectively inside the tackles is a legitimate question mark. I think it is also just as big of a question mark whether Vince Young can take snaps under center. Vince has never looked good when he's had to drop back to pass. And the last time I've check, I don't see many NFL teams being effective exclusively in shotgun formation.

To be honest, I am slightly in favor of us drafting Reggie Bush. But I really wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted either guy. On the one hand, the UT alum/native Houstonian in me wants to see us draft Vince Young and watch a fairy tale story unfold. On the other hand, I think David Carr can be a good QB and Reggie Bush is an electrifying playmaker. But I really don't think we can lose.

 

I want to also throw in a nice little factoid about Dan Marino and Barry Sanders. Dan Marino made the playoffs 10 out of the 17 years in his career. Barry Sanders made the playoffs 5 out of the 10 years in his career.

Keep in mind that Barry Sanders was the number 3 pick in the 1989 draft and went to a Lions team that missed the postseason the previous 5 years before him. Dan Marino was like the 27th pick in the 1983 draft and went to a Dolphins team that made the playoffs 4 times in 5 years before him.

So with all things being weighted equally, Barry Sanders and Dan Marino carried their teams to the playoffs 50% of the time. The franchise QB and RB argument is truly an interesting one.

 

link


Before we get to how Ricky Williams, again, has proven how much he doesn't love football, let us address the Vince Young question. Which is: If Young is so darned good and David Carr so darned mediocre, why don't the Texans do what teams have been doing for years in the draft -- namely, take the best available player? We open with a query from Texas asking just that.

THE TEXANS WILL BE SORRY IF THEY PASS ON YOUNG. From Carlos Alvarado of Weslaco, Texas: "Why wouldn't the Texans take Vince Young? I loathe the University of Texas and I am a huge Cowboys fan, but for the Texans not to take him would be ridiculous. He is not only the hometown hero, but the state's most beloved athlete. Taking him would take fans away from the Cowboys and would force a whole generation of Cowboy watchers to actually give a damn about watching the Texans. Think about all those Longhorn fans who will buy, and wear, Vince Young jerseys. Pretty soon, after watching the team long enough, even if he stinks, they will identify with one team ... the Texans. This is the Texans' chance to begin their journey toward the title of Texas' team."

Well, Carlos, that's not what Gary Kubiak is concerned with right now. He's thinking Carr's pretty good, maybe very good, and he's thinking he needs a weapon on offense to make Carr better. That's not to say I don't buy your argument; it's a good one. But in the end, Houston has to decide this issue on one thing and one thing only: What choice will give them the best chance to win over the next three or four years? Carr, with some significant help, probably can be a good player in the NFL. Reggie Bush, used correctly, could be a terrific 1-2 punch with wideout Andre Johnson.

There's one other Young question you've got to think about: Will his skills translate seamlessly to the NFL? The closest player to Young is Mike Vick, and Young is probably a little better, or at least a little more accurate in the passing game. Vick has won some games, beaten Favre in Lambeau in the playoffs, and generally done well in his first few years. But has he reached a plateau? Can Young continue to run and be the multi-purpose weapon he was at Texas? As Ron Jaworski told me recently, "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.''

WILL BUSH STILL BE BUSH IN THE PROS? From Brad Burke of Peoria, Ill.: "OK, so Reggie Bush is putting on pounds in an effort to prove his durability. In doing this, however, does he risk sacrificing the very things that make him so attractive: his elusiveness and breakaway speed?''

Good question. I doubt it. Eight or 10 pounds shouldn't do much to his burst, but there's always that danger, of course. We'll see at the USC pro workout day, April 2 in Los Angeles, when I expect Bush will weigh about 208.

 

I think that article is pretty dumb.

Maybe I misread the whole thing but it seems like he is saying the only reason the Texans should draft Vince is because of the fans (longhorn fans) he'll bring and not his talent.

 

stevel- It's not that I don't see the upside to Bush- I mean all you needed was ESPN.

It is that the risk is downplayed. Way downplayed.

Reggie Bush DID NOT have the college rushing career that Marshall Faulk had. Or Barry Sanders Or even Tony Dorsett. Those players were every down backs for their college teams.

You really gave my case for not drafting Bush-
If he touched the ball 15 times on avg. over his career and scored 2 touchdowns every 15 touches- he would be the greatest player to ever play in the NFL. That is waaaaaay over-rating him, it is not fair to Bush.
If you have to compare him to Parker it is ridiculous to use the #1 pick on that level of a player. That is exactly why the pick could bring far greater value either with a trade or a better selection.
He IS going to have to pick up blitzes- understand the defensive schemes will force that. (That is if he is a running back)

Dominique Davis is already doing everything I am asking except break the 30 yd runs- but he can break 20-30 yd runs with good blocking. But Dominique has the power and weight to break tackles and has proven it. You have to be able to break some tackles to get long runs in the NFL. Very seldom are you going to get the open space Bush had in college in the NFL.

I hope Bush is all you say. But just realize you are out there on this guy. He is no Earl Campbell (the kind of back I would jump all over with the #1 overall pick)

If Bush had-

1. Been an every down back in college- we would know a whole lot more about his ability in short yardage situations, durabililty and ability to break tackles and move the pile. Get yardage after the initial contact, block etc.
2. And been 6'1" 212 lbs in college we would feel alot better about him doing all those things on the next level.
3. And carried his team like Faulk, Sanders, and Dorsett did then we would understand more of what will happen against NFL defenses.

I hear he bulked up to 207 lbs. (most of what I trust that I have read said he played around 195-198 lbs. at USC)

I think Bush is fabulous in the open. I don't think he has proven he can break NFL tackles and get tough yards.

If I take him #1 I accept what I am getting, I don't overstate who he is.

He played as a situational player in college and he will be a situational player in the NFL- you are right hopefully he will get about 15 touches a game.

I am not that bothered about Bush being a Texan because he certainly will add another game breaking option on offense. I DO believe he will make some great runs and score touchdowns. But I don't think he will be a primary options/running back in the pros.

I am bothered that they are going to pass on Vince Young to take him.
I would be bothered if they passed a blockbuster deal to take him.

I hope Bush proves me wrong. I hope he becomes Marshall Faulk and more.
Cause I am pretty certain that the Texans are going to draft him.

 

it's because of his talent that he brings the fans.

 

Nope, it's solely because he's a UT fan. Don't you remember how many people swore off this team after we passed on D.D. Lewis?

 

I agree but it still seems like the article is saying they should draft him because of his fans and not his talent.

 

Let me start by saying I'm a huge VY fan. I have been following him since he was playing at Madison High School. I'm not one bit surprised at everything he accomplished at UT.I'm happy with either pick...but the arguments against Reggie are just insane. That he got shut down against Texas and showed his weakness, it's just one game everybody one game..and he didn't exactly get completely shut down..my opinion if Reggie would have got at least 10 more carries in that game including that 4th down..he would have had a big game and Texas would have lost. I want to point out that I hate USC and i'm a big UT fan...that's just what I honestly think would have happened.. I remember LT and Marshall when they were in college like it was yesterday..and trust me they are nowhere in Reggie's class..NOWHERE..All great ones get shut down every now and then...trust me I could point out so many bad games from so many great players.Look at VY, he looked so pathetic against a bad Texas A&M defense..now just like you say about Bush imagine what would happen to VY in the NFL against better, faster defenses..think about it..I'm happy either way..leaning a little towards VY only because he's from Houston..but trust me Reggie is the real deal..do you honestly think with everything he accomplished at USC...how awesome he was...how amazing he was..he's going to go to the NFL and not be a spectacular, elite player..I don't think so

 

Mike Vick has single-handedly changed Madden 2006.