[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Sure, a Sig bet for 30 days is fine with me.

DD

 

Casserly is very intelligent and well spoken.
But he has a horrible track record of talent evaluation. Washington-Houston.

Do you know what the difference is between good teams and bad teams?

Talent evaluation.

When people talk about getting David Carr an offensive line and another receiver or a dynamic game breaker like Reggie Bush- what they are not willing to say is that the team is bad because the talent is bad.

Everyone talks about don't blame Carr for this or that because the defense was terrible also. What they don't say is that the defense is bad because the talent is not there. Young safeties who are average in coverage, Faggins who shouldn't be starting, a very soft front seven who were last in the league in run defense. And most important no impact edge pass rusher.

David Carr can be a better quarterback given better teammates.

Reggie Bush would add some big play potential and compensate for DDavis injury situations. But in the long run Casserly would have to become good as a talent evaluator. It is not just the top pick that builds good teams it is good drafting in rounds 2-7 and smart moves. Casserly is below average. Very hit and miss. So our team is about a 5-11 team as far as talent even though we only won 2 games.

In the long run to rebuild the team we must get someone who is a good talent evaluator and use the #1 pick to draft someone to build around.

The right thing to do would be to draft Vince Young and keep Carr for one more season.

Vince Young is a once in a lifetime talent that you can build around.

If this scenario was playing out and this was our first draft (initial season) and Carr was in the draft- think about it- imagine if we were trying to choose between Carr and Young- no brainer the Texans would pick Young.

You see that is why it isn't that hard to know the right thing to do if you frame the situation properly.

If this was David Carr's senior year, and Vince was coming out with the same college career he just had and the Texans were picking for their inaugural season- who do you think they would choose?

We are a 2-14 expansion team- we must rebuild this franchise. Do the right thing and draft the one player we can start rebuilding around.

'Nuff said

 

There was a chronicle article earlier that I can't find now that states that every coach they've interviewed told them Carr wasn't the problem and to draft Bush over Young.

 

Bush is the right way to go...Carr is good enough. With more weapons, he will be so much better still. I'd rather have a Bushmaster M4 with laser grips, than a newer shotgun when I already have a good enough shotgun, and what makes the arsenal best effective is to look at a lighter, quicker weapon to compliment...

 

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/13617690.htm

Show time for Vince Young

NFL teams are weighing how quickly Young will be a winning pro. Vince Young made his decision. Now, it's NFL teams' turn to make theirs.
Young has opted to forgo his senior season, announcing his decision to join the NFL a few days after he set a Rose Bowl record with 467 yards of total offense in leading Texas to a 41-38 comeback victory. Young's hometown team, the Houston Texans, has the first overall pick. They were ready to select Southern California running back Reggie Bush, who, as expected, declared for the draft Thursday, but Young might change their decision.
The Texans are in the process of evaluating Young, who would sit behind David Carr for a season or two while learning the team's system.
Young isn't expected to last beyond the third pick, which belongs to the Tennessee Titans.
Michael Vick, to whom Young is being compared, was the No. 1 overall pick in 2001. But Young is considered a more polished player than Vick was coming out of Virginia Tech.
"If [Young] had come out last year, he would have been the best player in the draft," said an AFC head coach, who, by NFL rules, cannot comment on juniors until their declarations are made official Sunday. "Michael Vick is a running back playing quarterback. Vince Young is a quarterback."
Still, until his heroics in the Rose Bowl last week, there were questions about where Young projected in the NFL.
"The guy had a great game on a great stage," said Gil Brandt, former player personnel director for the Cowboys. "We had people earlier this [season] say, 'Well, I don't think Vince can play quarterback [in the NFL]. He's probably a wide receiver.' I never felt that way. He's pretty much a carbon copy of Randall Cunningham, although he can't punt as well."
Still, Young hasn't seen a defense like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He hasn't played in an offense like that of the Denver Broncos, whose offensive coordinator, Gary Kubiak, is expected to be the next head coach of the Texans.
Unlike Bush, who could provide immediate help next season, Young will need time to develop.
Positives
Finds a way to win: Young was 30-2 in his career at Texas, the best record in school history for a quarterback. At Houston Madison, he was 14-1 his senior season, leading his team to the Texas 5A Division II state semifinals. "His bottom line is pretty good -- 30-2," Brandt said.
Leadership skills: Young convinced his teammates to spend the summer in Austin, and the Longhorns had their best participation ever in voluntary seven-on-seven and 11-on-11 workouts. He convinced coach Mack Brown and offensive coordinator Greg Davis to loosen up. Whenever UT got down, Young never lost faith, and the Longhorns never lost faith in him.
Accuracy/touch: Young ranked third in the NCAA with a 163.95 efficiency rating. He completed 65.2 percent of his passes this season. "He's the leading passer in the nation [during the regular season]. What else do you have to say?" said ABC analyst Dan Fouts, a Hall of Fame quarterback.
Running ability/athletic ability: He isn't as quick as Vick, but he is a long strider who has the moves to make defenders miss. Young rushed for 1,050 yards this season and 3,127 in his three seasons.
Height: Texas lists Young at 6-5, 233 pounds. Randall Cunningham, to whom Young has been compared, was 6-4, 212. "Because of his size, he can see the field better," said Chris Landry, a former scout for the Browns, Oilers and Titans.
Negatives
Hasn't played in a pro-style offense: Texas tailored its offense to Young, running the zone read or spread option. Young took most of his snaps out of the shotgun and wasn't required to read the whole field in his pass progressions.
Delivery: A lot has been made of Young's awkward sidearm motion, but the scouts said that part of Young's game doesn't bother them. "He does it in a way that he thinks he can complete the ball," a scout for an AFC team said. "Sometimes he throws the ball like a dart, or he just pitches it, because he can get away with it. Let him throw the way he wants to, but the big thing is he can't do those things when you've got defensive backs standing there waiting. He's got such a good arm that he can get away with it in the college game, but up here, those defensive backs move pretty quick."
Superman mentality: Some of the things Young got away with in college will get him benched -- or carted off the field -- in the NFL. He will have to learn not to force the ball, and, more important, learn how to protect himself. "If [Young] had those designed runs in the NFL, he probably wouldn't make it to Week 4," said ESPN analyst Merrill Hoge, an NFL running back for eight seasons.
Ball security: Young bobbled three center snaps against Missouri. He had two fumbles against Texas A&M, losing one.
Only three years of major college playing experience: "I think he would have become a much better player a lot quicker had he stayed and got another year's worth of experience," Brandt said.

Ready, or not
Texas quarterback Vince Young is headed to the pros. The question for NFL general managers is if he is ready to play there:
YES He finds a way to win, evidenced by his 30-2 record as a starter at Texas. His leadership skills are off the charts; just ask his teammates. His passer rating was third in the country. He is unequaled as a runner at that position. Size matters, and at 6-foot-5, he easily surveys the field.
NO He is inexperienced in a pro-style offense, thanks to UT's zone read and spread option. His delivery will need work at the next level. That Superman mentality could get him carted off an NFL field. Ball security means no bobbled center snaps or fumbles. A senior season would be valuable experience.


Sorry if this has been posted

 

oh man...casserly with a chip on his shoulder doesn't sound like a good thing

 

do you think Casserly will be the key decision maker on this pick? i highly doubt it.

 

This is what cracks me up about the argument.

As a business owner, I let small decisions be done by my senior managers, but EVERY major decision, I have final say.

I am certain Bob McNair has the same thing....and he is a businessman first, and he sees those dollar signs, and all those fans in Texas that will now root for HIS team and not the Cowboys....

It is a win win.....

Young in '06...take it to the bank.

DD

 

There is a lot of "roots" influence here on Young clouding realism, but here's tha bottom line...

Micheal Vick, Joe Montana, whomever you think is bonafide couldn't do much better than Carr with what Carr has around him on offense. Vince Young is INexperienced, and what about that. What about someone who makes DD even better? What about someone who makes Andre Johnson that much better? What about not one, but two in the backfield that creates sirius receiving potential with speed +P extra speed? What about the implications of defenses guessing, being on edge, and confused with where to cover, how to cover, and such...

Reggie Bush will do this. He is too special to be blinded in roots when the sky is the limit towards what the Texans can do and how he will impact everyone's potential. Carr is good enough, and O yea...he will be positively impacted as well.

Thank you...

 

One thing is pretty clear, the Texans aren't going to let anyone know what they plan on doing until April 16th. I will take all reports lightly, and to be honest, I'll even take what Casserly says lightly. The final decision should be made by McNair and Kubiak (or whoever the next coach is). Casserly's track record is a joke and I would sure hate for him to be the guy that makes or breaks this franchise. Casserly should have been canned along w/ Dom, I don't see in any form or fashion why this guy still has a job.

With that being said, I don't think you can go wrong w/ Bush or Young. I think both will be great players, but I think picking Young will bring that excitement and buzz this franchise needs. If they pick Young, I hope it's not because of the popularity, but because they feel he can be the player that can turn this franchise around.

My 2Cents- Gucci

 

I am tired of hearing all about this Bush or Young debate across this board. The Houston Texans WILL select Reggie Bush with the first pick in the draft and here are the reasons why:

Reason 1 - Dan Reeves has recommended to the Houston Texans organization that David Carr is a quality QB that has the tools to be a succesful QB in this league.

"Texans owner Bob McNair made the decision after getting extensive evaluations from various sources that strongly endorsed Carr, including a favorable report from Dan Reeves, the former longtime NFL coach hired last month as a consultant."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2283797

This would lead us to believe they are leaning towards keeping David Carr.


Reason 2 - The leading candidate for the Texans coaching spot Gary Kubiak has also provided favorable reviews for David Carr at the QB position during interviews with the Texans.

"I think, first off, he's got tremendous ability," Kubiak said of Carr. "We all know he's a great kid. . . . He'd be a joy to work with. He's got some weapons around him to help make him better."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10748423/from/RL.1/

The key word in that quote above is "weapons around him." Who is more of a weapon then Reggie Bush. This would lead us to believe again they are leaning towards keeping D. Carr and drafting Bush if Kubiak is the coach.


Reason 3 - Reggie Bush is a RB, and Vince Young is a QB. The Texans dont need a QB, and we all know the development of a QB in this league takes some time. After last seasonn the Texans are growing impatient, and so are fans. The need to get better soon is apparent, and Reggie Bush provides the best possible opportunity to get better more quickly. Vince Young will take 2 seasons minimum to adjust to the NFL and a new system.

Reggie is also a more versataile player as explained by Casserly:

"If you have a Reggie Bush, he's an explosive player. Hands on the ball, he can score any time he gets it," Casserly said. "He can be a runner, he can be a receiver, he can be a returner and he could be a decoy. You put him in motion and all of a sudden he can free up coverages.

"I think he gives you a lot of options, plus he gives you a touchdown-maker and another playmaker on offense."


Reason 4 - Reggie Bush won the heisman trophy! After 12 games Bush was the runaway choice for Heisman winner and it was not even close. This goes to show you that experts from around the country were all in agreement. This includes the South and Southwest regions of the United Sates. In fact Bush beat out Young for hiesman voting in every single region.


Reason 5 - Reggie Bush is a more well rounded human being. He is more mature and handles himself in a more controlled way. He is a political science major and a better student then most of the players available in this draft. He presents himself in a more clean cut manner. This is obviously not the most important thing, but is always a favored trait by owners and coaches.



CASE CLOSED

 

any argument that argues that either one of these guys is more special than the other just doesn't make sense. 500 yards in a game is special. 250 pass 200 rush in a national championship game is special, 10 yards a play is special, 3000 1000 is special. Vince made his receivers better this year by being a leader and staying after practice with them. Bush opens up the offense for everyone.


this isn't about who's more special, they're both incredible talents.

 

You are right, but it is a huge mistake and here is why-

Reason 1- Yes David Carr has the tools to be a quality quarterback.
Reason 2- Who is more of a weapon that Reggie Bush- Vince Young, a far greater weapon who can put more pressure on NFL defenses and be involved in more impact plays and provide more scoring, leadership and clutch plays than Reggie Bush ever could.
Reason 3- The Texans don't need a QB any more than they don't need a running back. Is Reggie Bush a bigger upgrade of yards and scoring than Dominique Davis? Or is Vince Young a bigger ugrade over David Carr. When you are a 2-14 team drafting based upon supposed need with the #1 pick in the draft you have no vision or perspective of getting to a Super Bowl. We need a pass rusher worse than a running back.
Reason 3B- Reggie is more versatile, more explosive? Give me a break- Vince Young is twice as versatile as Reggie Bush. Vince can make plays throwing and running. Vince will be able to put pressure on defenses in the pocket and outside the pocket and up field. He will be field general and be touching the ball every offensive down. He will have more touchdowns and big plays than Reggie Bush in the first 2-3 yrs of their careers- Bank it.
Reason 4-5 Mean nothing

YaoMing answer this one question- If David Carr were coming out this season into the draft along with Vince Young and their careers were as they were who do you think the Texans would be selecting? Both rookies this season.

Unless you can frame this choice in the right perspective and you understand this team shouldn't be looking for a quick fix but a Super Bowl you will not make the right choice. And I am sure we won't.

Most NFL experts have very poor % of selecting good talent in the first round, no better than you or I. Just do the math and check the % of 1 round picks that are pro bowlers and hall of fame players. It is low. In other words most of the time the best players are skipped by poor decisions in the first round.

In other words the experts passed most of the time on the best talent and drafted losers in the first round. Not all the time, but the higher % of the time.

They are experts because they had on the field success or they work in the league. But most good talent evaluators in the NFL make smart player personnel moves.

We will not this draft.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060113

Even Skip Bayless has jumped on the Saint Vincent tour. I question this guys motives, he is a notorious UT hater.


By Skip Bayless
Page 2


Some people involved in Houston Texans management sound as if they've talked themselves into making a far worse mistake than I did.


All I risked was getting trampled by a stampede of Longhorns e-mail telling me how I should be fired for picking Matt-Reggie-LenDale to out-Heisman Texas, 35-17.



I felt pretty good about my prediction when a fourth Trojan who'll make NFL Pro Bowl teams -- Dwayne Jarrett -- slam-dunked the ball over the goal line to give "my" team a 38-26 lead. But Vince Young basically yawned, and grinned, and proceeded to make Matt-Reggie-LenDale-Dwayne look like third-rounders. Texas reigns, 41-38.


Lord (and the Longhorns) have mercy, did I ever underestimate Vincent Paul Young Jr.


An NFL personnel director who encouraged me to pick USC told me on Thursday: "That's the closest thing I've seen to Michael Jordan since he left Chicago. I watched this kid every game this year, and he just got better and better and better until you finally step back and say, 'I've never seen anything like him.' I don't want to hear another word about David Carr. The Texans will never live it down if they don't take Vince Young."


Never, ever.


This young man has a 6-foot-5, 235-pound blend of talent and intangibles never before seen in a quarterback. I don't want to hear another word comparing Young with Michael Vick or Daunte Culpepper or Randall Cunningham. He's in another stratosphere as a passer/runner/leader.


Young could eventually do for the Texans what he did for couldn't-win-the-big-one Mack Brown. Shrug, grin, watch this. Follow him, Texans, to the top.


But I'm preaching to a shrieking choir in Houston. Young is their native son -- a legendary product of Madison High School -- and Texans fans are like NASA rockets ready to launch on team management if it sticks with its original plan to take Reggie Bush.


Bush made it official Thursday: He's turning pro and he said he wouldn't mind at all if Houston took him with the No. 1 pick. After all, didn't it look suspiciously like the Texans gave it their all to lose the "Bush Bowl" in the season finale against San Francisco -- and win Reggie?


Indeed, if Reggie Bush avoids knee surgery, he'll be a Hall of Famer.


But Texans fans are right: Their team would be crazy not to take Vince.


"If they don't," says Houston Chronicle columnist Richard Justice, "they'll need an armed perimeter around the stadium to keep fans from storming it. Vince is all anyone is talking about."


So how in the name of Vince Young are so many national insiders, beginning with ESPN's Chris Mortensen and Mel Kiper, saying the Texans will take Bush?


Because that's what general manager Charley Casserly is saying. That's what advisor Dan Reeves indicated after a month of evaluating (and endorsing) quarterback David Carr. And according to Texans insiders, that's what the team's next head coach said he wanted when he was interviewed for the job.


The Houston Chronicle has reported that Denver offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak (who was recommended by Reeves) will be hired as soon as the Broncos' season ends.


Kubiak, Reeves and Casserly are traditional, conservative, by-the-book pro football men who obviously are thinking: So this kid had one great game against a bunch of guys who won't make it in our league. Running quarterbacks have always gotten hurt or gotten you beat in the National Football League, and that little wristy, sidearm flip of Vince Young's and his very average arm strength won't get it done against the likes of Champ Bailey and Sean Taylor.


We have a former No. 1 overall pick in David Carr, who has the talent but just needs some coaching and some blocking. We need the next Gale Sayers or Marshall Faulk. We need Reggie Bush.


Sound, but short-sighted, logic.


Which brings us to the man with the deciding vote: owner Bob McNair. Team sources say there's no way he'll allow his franchise to pass on a home-grown quarterback who could instantly turn Texans tickets into the hottest in town. Roger who?


Texans business staffers have half-joked that the team could double ticket prices the moment Young is selected on draft day. What an astonishing turnaround that would be for a Reliant Stadium that often felt more like a half-empty library during this season's home games.


Madison Avenue analysts are projecting Young could quickly become the NFL's most marketable star -- its LeBron, a Michael Vick who can live up to the hype.


Yet McNair won't insist on Young just to sell a few more tickets and make his two sons who graduated from Texas happy. No, McNair knows all that really matters is winning. Winning sells.


And McNair knows this about Vince Young: Above all else, he's a leader and a winner. His high school and college teammates believed in and followed him. That won't change in the pros.


And the Texans can risk letting Young fall to (and turn around) the New Orleans Saints? Or -- their worst nightmare -- the Tennessee Titans?


The Titans were the Houston Oilers -- until owner Bud Adams got a better deal and moved them to Nashville, Tenn. The last thing a Houston football fan wants to see is Vince Young win Bud Adams his first Super Bowl. That would haunt the Texans franchise for a long time.


The Titans pick third, after New Orleans. Titans quarterback Steve McNair has been a big brother to Young, and would love to teach him the ropes while playing one more season. Bob McNair cannot allow that to happen.


Furthermore, the Texans' owner cannot allow his team to sentence Reggie Bush to life as a Texan. Bush could be a combination Sayers/Faulk and still never quite live up to what Texans fans believe Young could be. Imagine Reggie flashing and dashing for, say, 65 yards on 15 carries in his rookie debut, and getting booed.


No, the Texans simply must take Young -- and trade Carr. That's the educated guess: That Carr will be paid the $8 million bonus that keeps him from becoming a free agent, then he'll be traded, possibly to Miami, hopefully for a first-round pick. Carr isn't bad. But he isn't Vince. He isn't much of a leader.


If the Texans take Young, it sounds like they'll also hire the offensive coordinator he came to believe in at Texas -- Greg Davis. No one knows better how to tailor an offense around Young's extraordinary gifts than Davis.


Davis knows there's one big difference between Young and Vick: Young is pass-first and runs only when he has to. Vick runs because he wants and needs to -- because that's what his short-sighted fans expect. Basically, if tight end Alge Crumpler isn't immediately and obviously open, Vick takes off.


Vick is still the NFL's most dangerous broken-field runner. But he's playing the wrong position. At what appears to be a shade under 6 feet, Vick has trouble seeing over Young-sized defensive linemen, and he still doesn't have much feel or rhythm for reading his progressions and finding and hitting open receivers.


Again, Young is 6-5, which allows him to get away with passing mechanics that will offend most NFL coordinators and draft geeks. But what amazed me most about the USC-Texas game was that Young repeatedly made the right decision and flicked quick-release passes that hit receivers right in the hands.



Remember, USC coach Pete Carroll was a highly respected NFL defensive coordinator, and he had 32 days to prepare for Young. He should have blitzed more. But even Carroll was intimidated by this kid's freakish ability.


The amazing thing about Young is that he throws and runs so effortlessly that you underestimate his velocity and quickness. He doesn't look like he's throwing hard -- but the ball sure gets there in a hurry. He doesn't look like he can get that 6-5 frame in gear too quickly -- yet he eases past blitzing linebackers and cornerbacks as if they're standing still. No defender ever seems to nail him with a good shot. He hits them harder than they ever hit him. He's stronger and more athletic than Culpepper.


He's deceptively Jordanesque.


I still say USC would win 7 of 10 games against Texas. Yet Vince Young overcame USC's 574 yards and 38 points with play after extraordinary play -- climaxing on fourth-and-5 from the 9-yard line. Make it or lose the national championship. Young glanced at one-two-three covered receivers, then took off from his 16 and beat the entire USC defense to the corner of the end zone untouched.


MJ over Cleveland's Craig Ehlo.


And some commentators are chortling that the Texans must wish LenDale White had gained another half-yard on that late fourth-and-2 so USC would have won and the Texans could take Bush? No, the Texans should drop to their knees and give thanks they "won" the first pick the year In-Vince-ible was available.


Am I overreacting to one game? No. I've seen the light and the future: Vince Young of the Houston Texans.

Skip
Bayless
THE NEXT MJ

 

Skip Bayless stepped up a ate some humble pie on this one. And I think he is mostly right.

YaoMing coing from the TJ school

Don't you think you might be a little overconfident? Might take a lesson from Skip.

 

I didn't want to say it but there it is,


Michael Jordan.

 

whats the scouting report on vince's arm strength?

i've read conflicting reports - in the article above, it mentions that he has a "good arm", but in the Skip Bayless article and in other places, it mentions that his arm strength is only average....

 

To me it looks like he's got a good arm, he just doesn't showcase it. He puts touch on his passes, and throws a catchable ball, with a quick-release. If he really needs to jam a ball between defenders, I think he has the arm to do it, he just may have to tinker with his throwing motion to do it on the NFL level.

 

If you're right about that, I move from my "50-50-so-i-guess-i'll-go-with-bush" stance and swing all the way in Vince's favor. That's my biggest question..whether he can "jam a ball between defenders"