[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Did Aikman get the Cowboys to the Superbowl or was it more Emmit's doing? How many 5-10 yd slants from both Montana and Young did Jerry Rice and John Taylor turn into to touchdowns? How many Superbowls did Elway win without TD? How many Superbowls did Young win in Tampa? For every RB you name that didn't get to the Superbowl I can name an equally good QB that did not make it either. How great were Simms, Hostetler, Dilfer, Rypien, Williams, McMahon, or Johnson? They were the winning QBs in 7 of the last 20 SBs. Of the top level QBs that won the other 13, Elway won his 2 with TD - one of the best RBs in the league during his tenure - almost set the single season ruhsing record - and it is important to note Elway didn't win until TD came along, Young and Montana both benefited from playing with possibly the greatest player of all time in Rice. If a WR takes a basic 5-10 yd slant route and runs 30-50-70 yds for a TD, does that show that the QB is great or was that the individual effort of the best WR of all time? Aikman played and won all 3 SBs with the current rushing yardage leader in Smith. Warner had Faulk when he won - who along with TD was the best in the league for about a 5-6 year period. Only Brady and Favre have won without the benefit of an awesome RB or the best player of all time - I know Montana won one without Rice.

How many did Marino, Fouts, Manning, Moon, Tarkenton, Mc Nabb, McNair, win? The QB is probably the single most overrated position in all of sports. I don't care if you can throw the ball 80 yds on a line through a tire, if you don't have any one to catch the ball what good will it do you? I don't care if you can run a 4.3 forty, if the rush in on you before you can set up to look down field - what good will it do you? Three things can happen when you throw the ball and two of the three are bad. There is no question a bad QB can absolutely kill you with errors, but you can absolutely win with an average one that takes care of the ball, if you have a great running game. There is also no question that great skill players can make a good QB look great - ask Aikman. This is why I don't think your " very few examples of great QBs on bad teams" arguement holds no water. Young did nothing in Tampa - great QB, bad team.

 

They don't test lower body strength at the Combine. They test VJ which is a measure of lower body power and I have read he jumps over 40"s. Additionally, 4.4 is plenty fast for an RB. I would rather know his 0-10 yd time and his 10 yd shuttle as these would be better predictors of success at the RB position. The 40 is more important for WRs and DBs, as they run nad cover pass routes of this length more frequently.

 

Bro, you can not put 4.4 (especially electronically timed) and "that slow" in the same message. Thats like saying a guy that benches 700lbs isn't that strong.

 

The discussion going in the Hangout is reason #1 to be wary of Reggie Bush. Edge is being pushed to the curb, even though he had 1500 yards last season and has consistently been amongst the top 2 or 3 backs in the league, simply because he's been in the league for 7 years and that's old for a running back - not worth the money to give him a new contract.

Is it really worth spending a rare #1 pick on a player who, most likely won't be worth keeping in 6 or 7 years even if he is successful (unless he's a best in history type)? This is exactly why I don't think #1 picks should be used in running backs.

 

GM's don't think that rationally.

Again unless the name is Earl Campbell I agree with you.

Earl was the only running back I can remember that was able to carry a mediocre team to the playoffs.

Otherwise just get a good back in a later round or a great back at a lower #1 pick.

Not many great running backs went #1 overall.

 

I think a 4.4 time would be some what of a disappointing time for Bush. While it is plenty fast for a RB, Bush has been hailed as the fastest player in the NCAA. People are saying (I think Bush said it as well) that he can run a 4.3 or 4.28, even though 4.4 is still pretty fast, it would still be disappointing since I'm sure a lot of scouts are expecting really great 40 times from him.

 

There are arguements against taking ANY postion with high draft choices. There have been tons of busts at every position with high draft choices- Leaf, Carter, Mandarich ect... I personally favor taking the best available player except if it financially hamstrings you or you are truly stacked at the position, or trading back to fill needs.

 

Barry Sanders?

 

true,

should have said by trading up to the #1 pick

 

Man, my mother can run a 4.5 40.

I know a 4.4 is not slow, but like gucci said Bush is supposed to have elite speed. People are expecting him to run somewhere in the 4.3s. If he can only hit in the low 4.4 then I think scouts will start to wonder how his speed will translate to the NFL.

 

You probably already think I'm crazy but I really like Vince Young's potential- I actually believe there are several teams that should go after him and it could put them in the playoff hunt next season by starting him-

1. Dallas- Jerry Jones should do it, I don't think Parcell would do it though
2. Miami- They are close, just need that something special boost
3. Detroit- weak division, new coach, get a great talent at QB
4. Jets- yep, if they get healthy a QB like Vince might get them a wild card
5. Arizona- They could use a big playmaker calling signals might get them 9 wins.

 

I wish I had list of playoff teams since 1990.

The names escape me, but I have a feeling that more than just two running backs have ever been the star of their team and led them to the playoffs.

You might even argue Ricky Williams did it. Even though the Dolphins defense was good (not great, but good) at the time. And Jay Fielder was the anti-christ.

Jamaal Anderson comes to mind in 1999. I mean, nobody thinks Chris Chandler is a great QB, do they?

There has to be more..

 

If you're talking just making the playoffs - absolutely. After all, since 1990, there have been 180 teams that made the playoffs. I'm sure there have been teams of all sorts that have made it - defensive, offensive, running, pasing, etc.

But games in the playoffs and more often than not won based on which QB has the better game, not which RB does. (of course, the QB's performance is affected by the RB's ability as well) Outside of the bizarre Tampa Bay - Washington game, I'd guess that in every game in this year's playoffs, the team that had better QB play won. The same can't be said of RB play.

 

No, many star running backs have led their team to the playoffs... far few running backs were drafted #1 overall and carried their team to the playoffs.

Earl Campbell was the overall #1 pick as a running back and he was a franchise player, he literally carried the offense. They crammed Earl down teams throats and it also improved the passing game off play action 10 fold.

1969 *O.J. Simpson, rb Southern Cal. Buffalo 11 6
1970 *Terry Bradshaw, qb Louisana Tech Pittsburgh 14 3
1971 Jim Plunkett, qb Stanford New England 15 0
1972 Walt Patulski, dt Notre Dame Buffalo 5 0
1973 John Matuszak, de Tampa Houston 9 0
1974 Ed 'Too Tall' Jones, de Tennessee State Dallas 15 3
1975 Steve Bartkowski, qb California Atlanta 12 2
1976 *Lee Roy Selmon, de Oklahoma Tampa Bay 9 6
1977 Ricky Bell, rb Southern Cal Tampa Bay 6 0
1978 *Earl Campbell, rb Texas Houston 8 5
1979 Tom Cousineau, lb Ohio State Buffalo 6 0
1980 Billy Sims, rb Oklahoma Detroit 5 3
1981 George Rogers, rb South Carolina New Orleans 7 2
1982 Kenneth Sims, dt Texas New England 8 0
1983 *John Elway, qb Stanford Baltimore 16 10
1984 Irving Fryar, wr Nebraska New England 15 5
1985 Bruce Smith, de Virginia Tech Buffalo 18 11
1986 Bo Jackson, rb Auburn Tampa Bay 4 1
1987 Vinny Testaverde, qb Miami, (Fla.) Tampa Bay 19 2
1988 Aundray Bruce, lb Auburn Atlanta 11 0
1989 Troy Aikman, qb UCLA Dallas 12 6
1990 Jeff George, qb Illinois Indianapolis 13 0
1991 Russell Maryland, dt Miami, (Fla.) Dallas 10 1
1992 Steve Emtman, dt Washington Indianapolis 8 0
1993 Drew Bledsoe, qb Washington State New England 13 4
1994 Dan Wilkinson, dt Ohio State Cincinnati 12 0
1995 Ki-Jana Carter, rb Penn State Cincinnati 8 0
1996 Keyshawn Johnson, wr Southern Cal. N.Y. Jets 10 4
1997 Orlando Pace, ot Ohio State St. Louis Rams 9 7
1998 Peyton Manning, qb Tennessee Indianapolis 8 6
1999 Tim Couch, qb Kentucky Cleveland 6 0
2000 Courtney Brown, de Penn State Cleveland 6 0
2001 Michael Vick, qb Virginia Tech Atlanta 5 3
2002 David Carr, qb Fresno State Houston 4 0
2003 Carson Palmer, qb Southern Cal. Cincinnati 3 1
2004 Eli Manning, qb Mississippi San Diego 2 0

Just take a look at the running backs who were #1 over all

 

I don't buy the whole #1 pick stigma thing... sorry. A player is the player he is, whether he is picked 1st or 32nd.

 

And a team is the player it drafts...
The #1 pick is not a stigma at all, it is a great opportunity to have first choice of the available college talent.

I would take the #1 overall pick every year if given...

A player is the player he is and if GM's in the league knew that prior to the draft there would be no busts.

Look at the list more times than not the best player was missed by the team with the #1 overall pick.

I am just saying that if you want the very best player when you draft #1 and you think it is a running back- history proves that it is a rarity.

I don't see how you can look at the history of the draft any other way.

OJ and Earl in the last 27 yrs. proved out it was right to go running back #1

Let's add Reggie to the list right now and be happy.

 

Maybe someone posted about this already, but didn't anyone hear the ultimate YY hater on 610 yesterday around 4:45? He thought VY had a good chance of becoming the next _______.

You know what? I'm going to let ya'll guess in case you didn't hear it. Absolutely the most absurd thing said in this entire debate.

 

Ryan Leaf?

 

Nope.

 

I have never heard he runs a 4.3 anywhere, i am pretty sure he runs a 4.4. Bush is fast but his strengths are quickness and agility. Reggie Mcneal runs a 4.26 but he is not a good runner. Bush uses his speed well, even though he may not be the fastest player on the field.