[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

agreed and my fingers are crossed.

 

I think there lack of a running game for those 2 games had more to do with the opposing teams defenses taking away the run and trying to force a young QB to beat them. To his credit he played well and got the job done, it is alot easier to throw against a D with 8 guys in the box to stop the run than it is against a cover 2 (for example).

 

BTW, have you checked out nfldraftscout.com - great site but you have to join. Very extensive profiles on players - far superior to espn ect...

 

I may be wrong but all the Vince Young detractors are playing into his hands.
I think he is that freaky talented. We haven't seen the best yet.

I am probably wrong but something in my gut says he will rise to every challenge.

He is going to separate himself from Vick, McNair, Cunningham, and the rest... a new paradigm... he might go to the Hall of Fame and I have a feeling one day he will be in another national championship game.

Expect him to get the MVP trophy...

I wish this feeling would go away.

 

OK dada.. it's time to throw the brakes on here..

How is it fair to judge Carr as a total failure considering these circumstances?

-Started immediately as a Rookie, no warmup or "adjustment" time on the sidelines.. which has been the standard case with virtually every successful QB in the game right now.. Brady, Brees, McNair, Vick, Pennington, Palmer, Culpepper, Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Favre, Green.. etc etc.. noteable exceptions? Carr, Harrington, Leftwich, Collins, and the Manning Bros.

Harrington - largely considered a failure, despite being at an organization that has turned into a black hole for talent since Sanders left.
Leftwich - has achieved moderate success going to a team with 1) an established running game and 2) a defense that has become more stingy each year since his arrival
Collins - Sucked terribly until he found his way to NY, in the 5th year of his career.
Manning Bros - Gene pool?

-Carr is the only QB who has started immediately for an expansion team since Kerry Collins came into the Panthers in 1995. How did Kerry do?

95: 2717 yards, 14 tds/19 ints
96: 2454 yards, 14 tds/9 ints
97: 2124 yards, 11 tds/21 ints

Compared to Carr:

02: 2592 yards, 9 tds/15 ints
03: 2013 yards (missed 5 games that year), 9 tds/13 ints
04: 3531 yards 16tds/14 ints
and then you have the toilet year
05: 2488 yards, 14 tds/11 ints

I don't know about you, but I'd say given the circumstances that is pretty damn good. Everyone saw progress in David's game from year to year with the noted exception of this year, when virtually no one on the texans roster played worth a damn.

Simply put, all of the people who were thinking the Texans should be playoff bound by year 3 or 4 were really dreaming.. sure, we could have been a 5 win team this year had a few balls bounced the other way, but I think what sealed the deal (or coffin, rather?) this year are some key offseason moves that ditched some all-pro calibur veterans (albeit they were nearing the end of their usefulness) coupled with bringing in young, unproven talent, combined with the most uncreative, least effective playcalling/scheming we've seen from the staff in 4 years.. and tah dah.. 2 wins.

Giving up on Carr after 4 years with an expansion team that has had only two or three impactful additions (which are almost negated by the noteable subtractions) since its inception is folly. Dakota.. if you were in Green Bay or Dallas in the early 90s saying these things, you would have run Brett Favre and Troy Aikman out of town.. be a little more patient.. Carr's situation is different from most.. so you have to judge him in a different manner.

I'd say the 4th year of starting is typically when a QB should come into his own. However, if he was not given a "warm up" year on the sidelines, I'd set that back another year, and if he came into an expansion team that was largely lacking any talent I'd set it back another year.. so really I think Carr should take off around year 5-6. Carr's 2004 yardage and positive TD/INT ratio show us that he is capable of performing.. you can't throw it all out the window because of this year..

 

no I haven't and thanks

 

I was looking around some old articles and found a website that had profiles of the longhorn commitments from 2002. Here is the profile for Vince coming out of high school. The reason why i'm showing this is to dispell the notion that he doesn't have that big of an arm and that he can't make all the throws. Remember, this is coming out of high school where he was 6-5 195. Now he's 6-5 235.

http://hornfans.com/recruiting/rpongett/2002/02commit.html#vyoung

 

You must have me confused with someone else. There's no point in debating someone who gets emotional over nothing. I never said I wasn't impressed with VY. I never said he wasn't a top prospect, I believe he is well deserving of being the #2 or even #1 QB taken. I just think Reggie Bush is more impressive and more of a sure thing.

Prove that VY was higher rated than McNabb out of college. I believe McNabb was known to have a good arm while VY's arm strength is rated as adequate.

 

Find a post where someone said Young isn't a top prospect.

 

I'll prove it on draft day, McNabb went fith I believe, Young will go higher.

 

This is an excellent post - great job and well thought out, but I still think DaD will poo poo Carr

 

My bad, I mean someone who is already convinced he won't do well. which you have argued comparing him to mike vick's recent poor play.

 

okay, I was wrong about this, mcnabb went second. but I still think vince i higher ranked.

 

Great comparison-
David Carr will = Kerry Collins

I think David will be servicable... He won't be with the team though the first time we eventually do make the playoffs.

I like Carr... seems to be a good Christian. Handsome. Good arm...

Doesn't throw the deep ball well and hasn't picked open receivers well... hopefully he will continue to develop, especially under the 'guru'

Most of Carr's vertical game has been great catches by receivers especially A. Johnson in 2004 season.

 

My defense of Carr doesn't have much to do with his religion or good looks..

It's more about being fair and objective.. I don't see how you can say he doesn't throw the deep ball well.. in 2004 he was bombing to AJ at least 3 times a game.. guy has arm strength that is comparable to any deep chucker in the game right now.. he might not always pick the best reciever.. but once again, Carr is under tremendous pressure to release the ball early, rushed decisions = bad decisions.

And I don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that Carr's vertical game is great catches by AJ.. that's like saying Delhomme's vert game is catches by Smith, or Bulger's vert game is catches by Holt, or Palmer's vert game is catches by Johnson.. a good reciever is needed to form a capable passing game, its a team game..

 

Seems like a terrible strategy, given that the QB is something like 26-4 in his career, while that running game & defense has led them nowhere in the previous years without him. Something tells me after two seasons of teams trying that strategy and failing, they probably aren't doing that as much as you think anymore.

If Ben is just a competent QB, you're telling me that if you replace him with any of about 15 other QB's, they'd have similar results over the past two seasons. Do you actually believe that?

 

I met your aunt...and uhh...

 

It's just an opinion I have,, that's all... I think he underthrows the deep pass consistantly... not because of arm strength but because of timing.

I think his timing must improve on the deep pass.
He throws a nice out pattern though and he needs to throw it more.

I like his arm strength.

My knock on Carr- has trouble reading the open receiver (might be coaching I dont' know about that)
- bad timing on deep throws
- doesn't feel the rush well (and I mean from day 1 in the league a lot of sacks came because he didn't move away from the rush, sometimes he moves into it)
- often locks onto a receiver (alot of young QB's do this)

hey he's serviceable but I rate him like this-

Carlson Palmer
Ben R.
Ely Manning
Leftwich and Carr

There are your young QB's- both Leftwich and Carr have alot to prove.

 

Leftwich and Carr both have had substantially better seasons than the one Manning put together last year.

 

Nope - Dom Caper's sucks.