[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

there is so much hype on these players im just stoked to watch them next season no matter where they go.

 

You knock DD and pump up Carr? Let me ask you, who has had the better career so far? Consider they play behind the same offensive line. No way you can say Carr.

How does drafting VY stop us from doing this?

A&M? Thats all you got. I'm not tied to any college team nor do I have favorites but I have watched college football for years. You cant judge a playrers performance in a bigtime rivalry. I think VY is a lot like Donavan McNabb only better. Even when he had bad performances his team won didn't they? You can hate on mobile QB's all you want but look how good Elway was behind the very system we are going to have. If they would of had better defences he could of won 2 or 3 more SB.

 

To be fair, our Oline run blocks very well, they just can't pass block for s**t. There is definitely a difference. I really like DD, but he is a mid level RB. I know Carr has shown much statistically, but the QB has to have help from the Oline, backs, receivers and TEs. No great QB can do it alone. You have a good point about Elway, but I think it is also important to note that he did not win a superbowl until they got TD. I say this as a HUGE Elway fan - I personally think he was the best to ever play the position - just my opinion.

 

There is something wrong with this post. It seems to be bashing Bush and then saying he will be the best RB in the Nfl for a five-7 year stretch and dominate the league as a rookie.

 

I'm used to disagreeing with you, IC, but you're dead on with this one. If Bush is going to be the Randy Moss of running backs, I want him now, no questions asked. When his career ends, Moss will be up at the very top among the best receivers to ever play the game.

 

Yeah, I caught that too. Randy Moss has been one of the best (if not the best) at his position for several years. I'll take that at any position, any day.

 

like who...Gale Sayers? Eric Metcalf? Wow.....yeah.

 

Originally Posted by rhester
Back in Oct. I watched Bush play and I told my kids he will be the most over-hyped player in the draft if he comes out.

After watching him play 2 more times my opinion hasn't changed.

He is great in space. Something he won't have in the NFL.

He is an average running back in tight qtrs. He does not break tackles.

One of the best in the open field I have ever seen. But he is a 'tweener for the pros.

He will be the Randy Moss of running backs.

No way I would use the #1 pick on him if I could get 4 first day draft picks for that pick- do it.

Just trade the pick.


How about replace Moss with Rocket Ismail or Peter Warrick, then I agree on point. VY is a better comparison to Moss, at least in being an athletic freak in terms of size/speed/quickness. But every sign suggests the leadership attributes between Moss and VY are polar opposites.

I don't agree with the DeAngelo Williams part (thinking about selecting him at all), I think the cost is still too high (like a 10 pick) given you have Davis there. If you really want another part time RB in the mix I'd say get Drew or Calhoun or Adai or Riggs Jr with the 2nd or 3rd rounder.

To me if you want to help Carr, trade down a couple and get DBrick, or trade down to the mid 1st with a ton in return and select Santonio Holmes (great pair with AJohn--they would be a load on secondaries). Then use your #2 on TE Lewis or Byrd (also causing major match-up problems).

It seems to me Bush's strengths, being a smallish quick RB and being a great return man, already fit practically the Texans ONLY offensive strengths.

To argue for Bush to be selected by the Texans you have to argue he is the best NFL prospect and better than what the Texans have by a good margin (also consider you are going to pay this guy close to 10 mil year), period. Maybe workouts or the combine can help this case, we will see (can Bush weigh in at 210 and show unparalled speed and quickness, while VY shows less than impressive speed or arm strength). VY is certainly a complicated pick given the contract situation and tradability for Carr--but you can't argue the Texans are hurting more for a good RB or good return man more than a good QB.

Based on need you will end with trading down a couple for DBrick, Hawk or Mario Williams, trade down a lot for a gold package, or possibly select VY/ML #1 (if you think Carr isn't special and his market value will only lower).

 

Agreed. All things being equal (ceteris paribus), I think Carr would benefit more with D'Brick than he would with Bush. As it stands now, Carr has no O-line help and a serviceable RB. Draft Bush, and Carr still has no O-line and a somewhat better RB. For those who want Carr to stay and actually thrive, it just makes more sense to trade the pick for D'Brick and scoop up a few more draft picks in which to grab more targets for Carr. I just think we can get more value out of the draft if we trade down. (And yes, Chaz Casserole is a Draft Day problem, but hopefully Kubiak & Reeves can call the shots from now on.)

 

Where did Chaz Casserole come from? I know who you are referring to.

Pretty creative.

The argument that I have is how do you get the most weapons. Bush can play 2 positions. Splitting time with Davis will only help Davis. Our WR core won't be near as weak. Carr is still young and very durable. Obviously, I believe Carr has an upside that we haven't seen yet.

With Young, you get a QB with a winning attitude and great athleticism. If they draft Young, I am fine. If they do, then you need to create a style of offense that caters to his strengths. Young could be a bootleg master. What I don't see is him being the pocket type qb. He does have good instincts to move when he needs to. He is also very good at avoiding the hard hit.

I lean towards Bush, but will be very happy with Young. It all depends on how he is utilized.

 

I think Young brings a lot more than that. Just as some people are saying that Bush is a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball, I think the same can be said for Young, maybe even more of a threat because he can create for himself.

I think a huge thing Young has is the ability to avoid the sack. Teams will be hesitant to blitz since they know VY can just tuck it and run it anywhere from 15-80 yards. I also like how he doesn't panic when he gets pressure, his ability to scramble/run it will open up a lot of options for him and the receivers.

 

Wow, you came up with one legitimate example. Good job.

I was thinking of Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn, Marshall Faulk. Barber had his best year (last year) in his 9th career year.

 

I'm still dumbfounded by the notion that many think Bush can be a viable WR. (And let's rule out KR/PR, given Pro Bowler Mathis and the whole risk of injury thing.) I just read Reggie's bio from the USC media guide, and I see no mention of him ever playing WR in either high school or college. What makes you think he can do it in the NFL with the real pros? Can he catch the ball in the backfield? Yes. Can he catch a quick shovel pass? Sure. Can he line up against Champ Bailey? Don't think so. If Kubiak sent him wide, it would be purely as a trick/decoy. Or do you actually think Bush can get separation and run precise routes? (Remember, this is not college, and he won't be playing against Fresno State as a man among boys.)

 

Here's a scouting report from Scouts Inc. on ESPN Insider.

He shows a tremendous feel for the passing game. He is a smooth, crafty route runner. Plucks well on the run and will adjust to the poorly thrown ball. Is a deep threat as a receiver; shows the ability to consistently separate. Also is a huge weapon after the catch. Tremendous elusiveness in space.

 

according to ESPN, Insider or otherwise, this guy is the greatest football player ever. if they're right about this guy, he has no equal. ever. they spent weeks telling us how his team was the greatest to ever touch the field while we watched images of his juxtaposed with gale sayers.

i hope he lives up to the hype, because it's going to be a helluva burden for him.

 

Not sure what the heck you are talking about. They never said that and even pointed out plenty of weaknesses in Bush, such as bulk and running inside.

And here's what they said about your man:
Possesses ideal size. Is tall, well-built and strong. A terrific athlete. Has reportedly been timed in the 4.4's in the 40-yard dash. Displays outstanding mobility and is a huge threat as a runner. Shows very good initial quickness and the ability to consistently avoid the rush. He has elusiveness and an impressive second-gear in the open field. A true dual-threat QB. Has improved his accuracy when throwing on the run. Extremely dangerous when he breaks contain. Makes a lot of things happen after the initial play breaks down. Is improving as a passer. Possesses adequate arm strength and can make most of the throws necessary in the NFL. His touch and timing continue to improve as a passer.

 

i don't have access to Insider admittedly. but when i hear them talk about bush, ever, on ESPN...i don't think i've once heard them mention any potential weakness. instead it's Sayers comparisons. and greatest team ever. and on and on.

 

And you came up with zero legitimate examples.

First - those guys with the exception of Dunn are different kinds of runners.

Second, only Barber has been a relative ironman of that group - this is the first year since 1999 that Faulk played all 16 games for example.

 

Bush has been compared to Faulk many times and they are similar. I guess you need to do more research on the subject.

Second, for 10 straight years Faulk had about 200 carries plus about 50 receptions. Some years he had way more touches than that. Dunn had 265 and 280 carries plus 29 receptions the past 2 years, his 8th and 9th years.

Third, Barber is the smallish type back that people thought wouldn't be able to physically carry the load.

My point is that smaller backs are going to endure less big hits as they will take it to the outside more. Guys like Earl Campbell shpw more wear and tear from taking it inside the tackles so often. I was just speculating, it wasn't meant to be a huge point of contention. Been in D&D a little too much?

 

hmm. Let's see. Texans vs. Broncos. Bailey chooses to cover Bush over Johnson. I didn't say he was going to be a pro bowl receiver. He can catch and is dangerous in the open field.

Chill out.