[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Yeah. We may or may not be drafting Bush, but we definitely aren't drafting a quarterback.

 

Barry Sanders carried his team to the NFC Championship game in 1991. The guy ran between the tackles all the time. He wasn't on the verge of breaking Walter Payton's rushing record after 10 NFL seasons, because he ran exclusively outside. I think he's the 2nd best running back of all time. And his single season NCAA rushing record of 2,628 yards is one of the most impressive things ever.

Before his breakthrough Junior season, he was exclusively a backup his first 2 years to a running back drafted in the 2nd round of the 1988 draft named Thurman Thomas. Splitting carries or being a backup to another legitimate NFL running back shouldn't be an indictment. It's about production with the touches you do receive. In his 250 plus touches last year, Reggie Bush was amazingly productive and that's what matters.

 

I'd be more inclined to believe that we aren't trading the pick. That would really create turmoil.

 

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Young-05-Highlights

YIKES!!! Maybe the Texans don't draft him, maybe that isn't a mistake, but there's no doubt that he's going to be a fine quarterback in the NFL.

 

There is definitely doubt

 

If you want to be 100% safe you can say there is doubt with everyone in the draft, I feel safe saying that Vince will be a fine quarterback in the NFL, not that much of a risk with that. Not like I'm saying he's going to be John Elway, just better than the Brooks, Carrs, Simms, Ortons, Grossmans, Dilfers, Harringtons, Garcias, the QBs in Buffalo, in Miami, in Oakland, etc, not that hard to be a fine quarterback in the NFL anymore.

 

We can speak definitively like we know something all we want , but the truth is, we don't know anything.

Draft Vince? Yes it can happen, the masses want it and no owner wants to be booed at his own draft party ...with the #1 pick, he will probably be a great QB, Carr could want out of here rather than be booed for being the not-Vince he will always be.

Draft Bush? We all wanted him badly until Vince came out. He could be #1 on every scout's draft board. Kubiak could be dreaming every night about the cool offensive plays he could design for Reggie.

Trade down? You never say never and you can't predict what the market price for the #1 pick will be. How's Pennington's knee? Will he ever play again.
What would a team give for Reggie. Maybe Kubes sees more value in an established vetern than rolling the dice on any rookie. Maybe McNair sees the no-win in taking Bush/Young. The best offers for the pick probably won't come until 1 hour before the draft starts.

I don't know, you don't know so let's kill some work time talking about it but betting the house or saying something will happen is just letting your ego getting the best of your brain. (As is true when anyone make definitive statements about indefinite events)

 

I agree with this. Sanders played in the "Silver Streak" offense, a form of the Run-and-Shoot, for much of his career. He did not have a fullback or tight end to block for him until late in his career. That's one reason he got tackled for losses so often. He had to dodge defenders before he even got to the line of scrimmage. His first year with a fullback, I believe he ran for over 2,000 yards.

 

It's called looking at the evidence and reevaluating your positions. I suppose it is better to be a total homer or total hater.

Further, let’s look again at the part of what I said about 2 years ago you have trouble with:

At the time I put a lot of blame on Simms. Yesterday a lot on Young. I still think neither are gamers nor smart leaders, but perhaps too much weight is put on them. Sure if you have a guy like Applewhite who can coach on his own he can overcome, but that fact is the offensive coaches have to put great athletes in positions to maximize their strengths and work on their weaknesses. Simms and Young should be good enough with the right coaches. How hard is it to teach QBs to glance before the snap to get an idea where the rush is coming from and how much time you have to throw? The OU corners didn't even bother pretending there were going to cover someone.

I said Simms and VY didn’t look like leaders, but I also was open to the idea they had been mismanaged. Mack Brown/Davis have admitted they got out of the way of VY. Gruden seems to have gotten Simms playing better. Maybe there was a kernel there. I certainly didn’t give up on VY or throw him under the bus, I was simply being realistic from what I saw on the field. Applewhite’s improvising was good for the Texas offense, and later VY's improv was good for Texas.

Cool, just because I am a Longhorn and another is an Aggie doesn't mean we have to be a blind hater or blind homer. (BTW my wife is an Aggie). If VY had just lead the Aggies to the national championship they way he did I'd tell the Texans to draft him too. I have been a bigtime fan of Roy Williams (the safety from OU) and Ray Childress once they were in the pros, heck I even routed for Bucky to make it once he was an Oiler. Routing hard for their college teams to lose against UT never got in the way of routing for them as individuals once they moved on.

I certainly recognize the arguments for Sanders. I personally would take Brown, Payton, Emmitt and Earl to round out a great team over him (if I was building a team out of nothing I'd probably go with Barry over Emmitt or Earl), but don't have a problem if you don't. It will remain an unanswerable question, but I think the Cowboys were better with Emmitt (who had a great oline and other teammates, but what was the best compliment to them was the ball control, fercious blitz pickups and tenacious will to win Emmitt capped them with) and the Lions with Barry (who didn't have much else). But let us not pretend Payton or OJ spent most his years with good teams either, Barry S hasn't been the only great RB in that situation. I may not agree Barry S is a greater player than Emmitt or Earl, but again I can accept an alternate view just fine. Saying Barry S was better than Brown and Payton, you would have a really hard time convincing me of that one.

 

Bush is great college player and great pro RB prospect. Not the surest RB prospect we have seen by a mile (despite what a few pundits have put out there), but still a great pro RB prospect. He is certainly worthy of a top 3 pick in this draft (that is exclusive company for Rbs to be drafted), many drafts the overall #1.

The problem for him is VY came out. VY had and even more impressive season statistically, an unprecedented season combining passing and rushing (not to mention passing efficiency). Further, when loads of elite first round draft quality skill players were littered throughout the field on the biggest of stages (Bush, Leinart, VY, Jarrett, White)--one guy stuck out as a sore thumb. One guy was at a whole another level in imposing his athleticsm, size and will, and he happens to play the most critical position in football. It would take huge red flags in workouts not to go with that guy, that is not a knock on Reggie Bush at all for him to be picked after that guy.

 

I'm listening to the Kubiak news conf. and after hearing Bob McNair and others don't expect the Texans to draft a QB- sounds like NO WAY.

They all think Kubiak is going to make Carr an All Pro.

 

Kubiak has spoken and has pretty much confirmed the obvious.

 

Oh well, I sure hope they trade that pick.

 

Then McNair made it obvious that the Texans won't be drafting VY.

 

Then I say FIRE KUBIAK!!!

 

and McNair!!!

 

My advice to Bob McNair is start coming up with all your excuses now so you are ready in three years to explain why you passed V. Young and why D. Carr isn't able to lead the team to the playoffs- yada, yada, yada, yada

Ben R.
Carlson P.
David C.

which name doesn't belong in that list?

 

You know if If were Bob I'd let the Vince/Reggie crap boil over right up to draft day and then take the best offer to trade down. There is no win/win solution available, someone will be pissed. But if you take a trade down deal you can always say " this deal was just too good to pass up, it serves the team best for the long term" Everyone will be equally deflated, there will be no clash of passions, no in your face winners or losers.

Really if I were Bob McNair really I'd buy a Greek Island and stock it with super-models but, hey that's just me.

 

what was said?

 

I posted this in the other thread, but this is what I picked up from his interview.
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Just by the way Bob McNair is talking on 610 it sounds like Reggie will be the pick by reading between the lines. He really wants to see what Kubiak can do with Carr because he views Carr as being more skillful then Plummer. Also, mentioned the Texans need more big play ability.

When asked about Vince mania in Houston he said he was excited about Texas winning the national championship, and what that did for Texas. But, he has to think about what player would be best for this team. How the #1 pick will effect the salary cap. "It is much more complicated than just who do you want as QB, Vincy Young or David Carr and the fans will come to realize that." He mentioned some other things that I forget now, but he sounds like he does not want to draft Vince.
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They will replay it during the afternoon show.