[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

The first four lines coukd make for a good defense of Charely Casserley!

 

That makes no sense. Young is obviously a different player then Carr and Leinart but that doesn't mean it closens the similarities between carr and Leinart.

Have you watched Leinart play much? He's about as mobile as Peyton Manning. You've seen Carr scamble effectively (outrunning lb's, de's and even cb's on some occasions) in the NFL.

If you are looking are comparing Young and Leinart it really comes down to what you are really looking for.

 

this post makes no sense, reread what you are saying! College really sticks out here.

 

The Chargers were kicking themselves in the ass(until Brees got hurt) because Rivers has very little trade value and they wasted that pick on a player they didn't need. By the way, did you notice how good Brees got all of a sudden when they added gates and McCardell to go with LT?

 

their all judged by what they did in college. the whole "it was against college competition" argument is the most mornonic one I've heard yet. was reggie playing against some other competition I don't know about?

 

Who did Reggie Bush play against last year? Were those actually NFL defenses instead of Pac-10 ones?

 

that is not the argument, college is completely different than the nfl. Do his skills translate to the NFL to be considered a #1 pick, or all of you a little excited about a national championship game performance?

signed

David Klingler, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Alex Smith, Tommie Frazier, Curtis Enis, Ken Dorsey, Jason White, Quentin Griffin, Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch, Tim Couch

 

what they did in college does translate,

signed

peyton manning, dan marino, john elway, jim kelley, carson palmer, etc.


its a stupid point, stop making it. the only way to judge these players is what they did in college. how is what bush, or young, or lienart's college career irrelevant. its the only actual game film there is to analyze. are you saying scouts don't watch game film?

 

Of course they are judged by what they did in college but college analysts opinions don't matter anymore. Dick Vitale can tell me all he wants that the Rockets are crazy for not picking Jay Williams over Yao Ming but I'm sure glad we have pro scouts aren't you?

 

Leave Curtis Enis alone. He never did anything to you.

 

this is sooooooooo stupid, you guys are really reaching,


john mclaine has already written an article on where he talked to actual NFL scouts who had high opinions of Young so this argument is irrelevant.

 

Okay, I think people are getting confused. Vince is a great college player, no one doubts that. No one said he is one of the best football players ever, since he hasn't done anything in the pros yet.

 

Those QB's actually linup with Leinart's skill set better then VY's.

I don't really know who to compare Young to because he doesn't really compare to anyone. That's what makes it tough. The closest is Culpepper but he's a loser with a better arm.

 

Show me where I'm reaching. Are you telling me that pro scouts opinions aren't way more relevant then college analysts?

Have i said Young isn't a good or even great NFL prospect? I actually have said I would pick him over Leinart if I was posed with that decision.

They have also said on ESPN that a lot of scouts think Jay Cutler is the best prospect of the three. Guess what, that tells you that opinions are all over the board when it comes to who is the best QB. Obviously nobody has distinguished themselves yet. Bush is listed everywhere as the top prospect in this draft.

 

but most of the anti-young arguments do focus on what Young won't be able to do when all we have to go on for any of these guys is their college career.

 

There's your mistake right there. This isn't an "anti-Young" argument. It's an "I think Bush is a better pick for the Texans then Young" argument.

We don't only have their college careers to go on we have the famous Bush high school tapes to look at as well.

 

Heisman's are based on media attention, not based on who are the best players. Archie Griffin got 2 when they were better players around. Charles White got one over Billy Simms. Desmond Howard got one. Gino Torretta got one. Jason White got one.

Anyone who thinks Ron Dayne was a better football player than Vince Young is on crack. Ron Dayne did not dominate every game he played for like 20 strait on the way to the national title. I can't remember a single other football player who probably would have won the NC last year had he been on Texas instead of VY. Lee Corso metioned one, maybe Roger Staubach.

Saying VY isn't one of the greatest college football players ever is like saying Gale Sayers isn't among the best pro football runnign backs. You can say it based on cumulative stats, but a lot of people will argue their phenomenal impact the time they did have warrents their discussion among the greatest ever. It will be interesting to hear what Carroll, Stoops, Tressol, and L Lloyd Carr have to say about him with a few years perspective.

Here are some tidbits not even too distant:

Before 06 Rose Bowl: "There's been nobody like this," USC coach Pete Carroll said. "There's guys that can run and there's guys that can throw and there's quick guys, but nobody has ever been this fast."

After Texas' 38-37 victory, Wolverines coach Lloyd Carr described Young as "the finest athlete I've ever been on the field with."

random thoughts:
Adam says:
As an avid OHIO STATE fan I will hands down say that Vince Young is by far the most deserving player to wear a college football jersey in the past 10 years. I understand that includes some of the greats like Palmer, George, and Manning. The kid is a phenom and if Texas won't recognize how special he is then the program is heading in the wrong direction. VY is one of the all time greats!! A number retirement is the least they could do to show some type of respect.
zippy says:
I'm a Buckeye for life. But, dude deserves to have his Jersey retired. He was the entire offense. He lead his team to a national championship, a big 12 title, and the second most thrilling championship game of all time.....behind o-state and miami of course.
http://www.fanblogs.com/texas/006358.php

Interestingly, even fans VY beat recognize his greatness. An SC fan who is arguing against retiring VY jersey still says the Texans should take him over his own guy Reggie Bush.

I think the only people who do not seriously entertain the idea the Texans should draft VY and that he is the best prospect this year are those fans in Texas (maybe Ok and Ark too) that just absolutely hate the Longhorns. Everyone else seems to give him his due and just say "wow".

VY's stats and 20 some win streak certainly don't discredit statements like that.

If the choice was between going with Alex Smith or Matt Leinart (and no Bush) instead of Carr and Bush to center your franchise it would make a lot more sense to go with the latter. But VY is a special athlete among great athletes, lot higher upside than Smith, Carr or Leinart. Got to take your chance.

Carr was the #1 pick in a weaker draft year. If he were coming out this year I'd guess he would go #3-#5 (almost surely after Bush, Young and Leinart after their body of college works) and though we can't call Carr a bust yet, he hasn't exactly proven he was a great pick either. I don't see the attachment to him, it isn't like the Texans havn't been paying him and owe him anything.

 

Vince Young did not dominate 20 straight games, you are lying to yourself there

 

This works in VY's favor. VY faced elite D1 athletes and coaches (SC, OU, OSU, Mich), he simply dominated even more. Bush on the other hand was still a good or even excellent player, but was not the dominant player on his own offense more often than not when his team faced better/faster defensives (versus UT, OU, Cal the last couple of years).

IMO Speed and quickness is A#1, A#2 and A#3 key attributes of Bush. He isn’t a great blocker, isn’t a great route runner and isn’t great between the tackles. He might learn these things, but he isn’t there yet. But for VY, speed and quickness is only one of a much larger repertoire of skills and abilities (size, leadership, composure, throwing accuracy) that will help him adapt his game to the pros.

 

You don't think White, Torretta and especially Howard deserved those Heisman's? You don't think Griffin deserved either?

I never said Dayne was better but I said people will bring his name into a debate. If he wasn't such a bust people would probably debate it even further.

The middle few paragraphs are basically a VY lovefest and therefore it's hard to respond. Reading some of your comments (seeing how high you are on Young) there's no real way to have this debate with you. For a second there I thought you were talking about Jesus.

I've said I'd take Young over Leinart. I'd take certain posters on this board over Alex Smith. I just wouldn't take him over Bush. If Leinart and Young were in the same draft as Carr would they be picked over him......yep. If Peyton Manning and Michael Vick were in the same draft as Carr they would have been picked over him too. He can substitute players in the #1 slot for most of the drafts ion history.