[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

You're kidding right. Bush is a way better runner than those guys.

 

Evidence that suggests Bush may not be a feature back in the NFL.

 

Yes, it suggests that Bush MAY not be a feature back. And that's a pretty big "may." Bush is still the consensus top runningback in the draft and at very worst will go #3 if Young and Leinart are drafted before him (highly unlikely). He blows away the other runningbacks including LenDale White.

 

I'd say it's damning evidence that Carroll won't coach in the NFL.

 

What if Adrian Peterson had not been injured this year? I was thinking about that, if he were healthy all year there is a good chance he would have won the heisman. If he declared for the draft, then I bet he'd be projected in the top 3. That would make this debate even more interesting.

 

except he's a sophomore.

 

I really liked John and Lance's trading down theory. Trade the #1 for the Jets #4, next years #1 and a second round of this years draft. Draft AJ Hawk with the #4. Move one of our 3rd round picks and one of our 2nd round picks to move up and take a good TE. Then, take your first round picks next year and package them for a Peterson or Brady Quinn pick. I like it!

 

He couldn't have come out this year? Does it go by what year you are in or by your age?

 

stupidly enough, it goes by the year of your graduating class, 3 years afterward. so it doesn't matter what age you are.

 

It goes by year. I think the only time this was questioned besides the Clarrett deal was with Larry Fitzgerlad. I think they counted his college prep year as a year in college.

 

i thought you only had to be 20 years old to come out as well

 

we're still talking about football, right?

 

you have to go through 2 years of eligibility in the NCAA level before being eligible to declare for the NFL Draft.

 

You have to have just completed your junior year or redshirt sophomore year.

 

I really hope they trade this pick. You dont need a running back and you dont need a quarterback....i dont care how good young and bush are, u have other needs that are more important. Try fixing our defense! Our linebackers are absolute crap...(no disrespect to Kailee)...When the Texans swith to a 4-3, Babin and Peek should move to ends, which leaves us an even bigger hole at linebacker.....

my theory

there is a huge demand for our pick. everyone outside of san diego wants either bush, young, or leinart....i say we package the deal just like san diego did in the eli manning deal. I know this idea has been thrown around before but it makes SO much to sense to address our other needs instead of improving already talented players. Trade the pick for a first and second rounder this year, a first rounder next year, and an impact player (*ahem jonathan vilma *cough) this could potentially fix numerous spots on our time....think of this b/c it is possible....we trade the pick to the jets so they get bush...we draft OT ferguson or LB aj hawk, a tight end in the 2nd (pray for health this time), get vilma, sign another good reciever in free agency....and we look pretty good! not to mention we have two first rounders next year. hopefully the football gods work this miracle.

 

what's football?

 

The questions Vince Young needs to answer
NFL scouts get paid to be overly critical. They break down every granule of a prospect's game. And then they break it down again.

With that in mind, I talked with a couple of old NFL friends down at the East-West Shrine Game in San Antonio (neither Reggie Bush nor Young are there) and asked them to get specific, even though it's early in the evaluation process.

They love Young's leadership. They love his scrambling ability. They love his size and strength.

And they actually don't worry much about Young's much talked-about throwing motion. As one scout put it, a good NFL quarterbacks coach could have it fixed by the end of mini-camp if Young is willing and does work on his own.

But here's the short version of what needs to be answered:

1) Young needs to prove he can handle an offense from under center. The Longhorns utilized Young's abilities beautifully, but the playbook was thinner than Jeff Van Gundy's lineup. Scouts believe the Longhorns instructed Young to make his first read, and if it wasn't there, tuck the ball and run. That worked in college. It won't in the pros. A quarterback needs to check one option, then check the second option, maybe the third and then throw away the ball. Scrambling so often will end Young's career quickly.

2) Young needs to show an ability to hit receivers on the move. That is, crossing routes and timing routes to the sidelines. Most of Young's success passing the ball at Texas came via deep routes to the tight end up the middle of the field, to a wide receiver down the sideline or on "sit-down" routes. That is, routes where the receiver uses his athletic ability to push back a defensive back, then turns around and Young throws him the ball. In the NFL, those passes are often covered. A QB must be able to read defenses and hit teammates on the move between seams in the zone or in tight-spaces in man-to-man coverage.

3) Footwork and taking on an entire playbook. Young needs to prove that he has the mechanics NFL quarterbacks must posess. It begins with footwork from under center and ends with audiblizing into the right play depending on what the defense shows. In limited time playing under center in 2004, Young showed a propensity to mis-read defenses and fumble the ball, scouts say. Once Mack Brown kept things simple, Young flourished. But that won't be an option in the NFL ...

Quick hits: Ben Roethlisberger has been in the league two years and made it to the AFC Championship both years ... how long before more quarterbacks go to the one-glove technique? ...

http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/

lopez went to A&M, ic2000 went to A&M

both question Young in the NFL

both want Bush

never seen them in the same room together

Hmmm............

 

Good point; but reverse it.

How many Non-UT fans think Vince is the better option? I wish I could do a poll, but I doubt T-sips would be honest.

 

So was Randle-El. I'd bet even money if McNeal makes it in the NFL most of his plays are not as a QB. McNeal's size and durability make him a better candidate to play another position.

What we do know by all accounts VY was by far the most difficult player in college football to contain, and despite the Heisman voting, when the season completely unfolded he was clearly the best college football player, not even close. "Athletically he is a freak and he threw the ball on the money all game long with a NC on the line, he was basically impossible to stop." These comments were essentially what Bush's teammate (Leinart) said about Young.

Yes Bush is better, way better. But for 15 runs and 4 receptions and maybe or return or two the difference between what Bush can do and another part time back who excelles in the open field and also runs good routes no where near justifies giving up an overall #1 pick.

If all you want is a compliment to Davis, just find a guy like the Chargers found in Darren Sproles using a 4th round pick. If you draft Bush you expect him to carry the ball 75% of the time and be in the game a minimum of 75% of the offense plays. If you are not confident Bush is ready to do this, that is a very unwise use of a #1 overall pick.

I would certainly say you don't have near the evidence you have with Faulk, Dorsett or Sanders. He could be a feature back in the NFL, but it is a much bigger gamble than it was with those guys.

It would be a shocker if Bush, Leinart and VY didn't take the top 3 spots in some order, sure. Personally, IMO the safest pick is Leinart. In terms of RBs,
I would say right now DeAngelo Williams is every bit as likely to be a workhorse NFL running back as Reggie Bush, I'd say at least even money Williams gets more NFL carries in their careers. But Bush's upside is greater if he continues to develop and becomes an excellent between the tackles runner. It is kind of like comparing Leinart and VY. Leinart has the stronger college resume as an NFL type QB--safer pick at this point, but VY upside is a lot higher. IMO when you are starting at the bottom you have to go for upside.

I think this is reasonable IF when you evaluate Bush and VY in house you think both are overvalued/overrated. If you think Bush has a low likelihood of developing into a Faulk or LT AND VY has much bigger questions than say McNair or McNabb--trade the pick. But if you think you have the next Faulk, LT, McNabb or McNair--it is alomost impossible to get that kind of value in a trade and you take that player.

I disagree. Everything I have seen on the field leads me to more question whether Bush's game will translate as well to the pros as VY.

The #1 question for VY is whether he has the capability to have at least an average understanding of NFL offense's and NFL defenses for an NFL QB. The #2 question is does he have at least an average NFL arm. He is so exceptional in other areas (leadership, compusure, maturity, confidence, size, athleticsm) if he is merely average in these respects I think you have your #1 pick. Based on the kinds of effortless reads he made and the dissection of USC's defense using his arm and brain as well as his feet I think he will come out OK in these respects (let's not forget OSU defense, OU defense or Michigans defense either). But I am sure the Texan scouts can get a handle on this better than I once they get him in house for an evaluation.

For Bush, major questions are his pure running ability in tight space and between the tackles, degree of instinctive feel for blocks, blocking ability/potential versus NFL blitzing linebackers, and durability when used as a workhorse back. Having an amazing burst as he does, being strong for a college 200lb back, and being great in the open field no where near eradicates these questions. Further, glipses of his play and reduced dominance against fast college defenses like Texas, California and OU isn't the greatest of signs. Kind of the opposite with VY, who looked every bit as phenomenal and putting an even bigger stamp on the game when his opponents were faster and better.

Right now the evidence based on the consistency they imposed their capabilities on the field, particularly versus more pro-like teams and how their coaches used them, favors VY. So I am not at all ready to say VY's concerns and questions are at another level higher than Bush's. Certainly not at this point, without workout evidence from the combine or pro-day workouts working against VY. That is why every serious scout should really say it is a crapshoot for the order of top 3 picks until workout results are available.

 

BTW more than half of those points Lopez made are completely bunk (I took them apart on page 14). For instance, concerns about hitting WRs in stride on crossing routes, making multiple WR progressions before deciding to run, and concerns about finding seams in a zone? Which national championship game was Lopez and those scouts watching because VY was exceptional in these areas. While some concerns are valid (can he throw a good timing-dependent deep out, can he take in an NFL offensive playbook), most of those comments/concerns must been old, regurgiated, concerns about VY or these scouts are blind.