[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Desert Scar,

I am basing my observations on VY on what I have seen over the whole year not just the SC game. Alot of people here are making such outrageous claims about VY that it is getting a tad silly. Some are saying he is unstoppable in the open field - well A&M and OSU did a pretty good job in that regard. He does have terrific stats, but I remember Andre Ware putting up ridiculous stats as well and we all know how that turned out. I like VY and I think he has a chance to be all the things everyone is saying about him, but he also has a chance to be another Brooks. I am not saying that you are making silly comments or whatnot, but I am just trying to caution people because I think VY has some MAJOR question marks to his game. I love the intangibles, but too many QBs have come into the league with tons of promise only to be busts.

 

I guess you didn't cringe when he threw the ball in double and triple coverage downfield. I saw a few decent passes, but most of them were simple 5-10 yard passes to a wide open man on the outside. In the NFL, DB's can earn their paychecks reading this and picking off this type of pass.

Perhaps you could share your thoughts on the passes he threw up the middle. Not over the linemen, but in the gaps. If VY doesn't change his throwing motion, a good number of those attempts will be batted down.

How many times was VY not in a shotgun this season? How many times did you see Jake Plummer in a shotgun?

In the Rose Bowl, UT's offense was not complicated, but it was effective. It focused around Young and his athletic ability. Kubiak's offense is effective, because it opens up opportunities to distribute the ball as well as open up lanes to run the ball.

Totally different.

I trust Carr to make this adjustment, before Young.

 

I don't have a problem with this. I think key issues I am interested in from an NFL scouts perpective are VY's arm strength and whatever they can come up with to get a handle on his mental aptitude for an NFL offense (I guess the Wonderlic is the best they got, and it isn't very good for football intellegence, but better than nothing I suppose). I feel pretty confident these things won't come back so bad to outweigh his remarkable blend of leadership, size, athleticsim, and composure.

But honestly Reggie Bush IMO has big if not bigger questions. He hasn't been a workhorse. He (as well as White) had holes open for them they will never see again in their life. He wasn't even the best between the tackles runner on his own college team. Comparing him to Doresett, Faulk, Sayers or Sanders--who would unthinkable not to hand it too 3 times over with a national champsionship on the line simply because you had a good player like White behind him on the depth chart--is more tenous than any comparison I have heard for VY. Yeah, Bush is spectacular in the open field, but open field and big holes are hard to find in the NFL, and great open field college players like Peter Warrick, Desmond Howard, and Rocket Ismail haven't come close to duplicate their success in the pros. Bush does have more going for him than these guys, but like them open field his best strength--not route running or catching instincts if you line up Bush as a WR nor between the tackles running where NFL halfbacks must earn most of their living. Also, a relatively speedy college defense pretty much contained Bush and certainly kept him from being a dominant factor. The worst of the pro defenses are much faster than the Texas Longhorns, all they have to do IMO is play Bush a little to run to the edge when he carries the ball or cover him with your average DB 1 on 1 no problem in the passing game (Texas had some guys who did fine on him in pass coverage). In short I don't see near the challenges to defending Bush many proponents have said, nor do I see just sticking him out there doing all that much to open up the Texans offense.

Further, 1) even supreme RB prospects fail too-KiJana Carter, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis, 2) QBs last longer in the NFL than RBs, 3) elite QBs have a greater impact on the game than elite RBs.

Given both have major questions in translating their games to the pros and the above factors about RBs versus QBs importance/longevity, unless personal evaluations are spectacularly unimpressive for VY (worse than average pro arm, putrid Wonderlic) or spectacularly impressive for Bush (e.g., 4.3 speed, ridiculus lower body strength), what I have seen over both their college careers with lots of game observation leads me to strongly favor VY as a potential game changing pro player.

 

The throw that Ting should have picked was a very bad throw. It was a poor decision (more bad decision than bad throw, VY should have just launched it out of bounds but he tried to force it across the field off his back foot) that almost cost his team the game. Another deep ball could have been picked. But like I said Leinart, who I think will be a very good pro, threw 3 balls for sure that hit the hands of two Longhorns, and 1 more borderline. VY didn't have a Dwayne Jarrett out there either. Also, if ML he didn't underthrew his FB on his last collegiate pass his team probably wins. These are 2 of the greatest college QBs in recent memory, yes mistakes were made and they were not perfect, but they threw the ball great overall and made tons of plays for their teams.

I don't know, I see few plays that Delhomme and Plummer make that I don't think VY has the arm and tools to make from behind center. Just because the best way to use VY in college was to put him in shotgun doesn't mean that is the only way he could be effective. Despite him being in the shortgun, big pluses were that he uses the whole field passing and hit 7 WRs, usually each guy in stride, in the Rose Bowl alone. Those are very good signs.

Finally, Brady and Manning in particular played a lot of shotgun. Both are generally considered the best passing NFL QBs and are very seasoned NFL players. Both also made terrible mistakes that booted their teams out of the playoffs. Mistakes happen to the best of players. I would expect VY to make mistakes, but I expect they will be way offset by the cumulative positive plays once he adjusts to the NFL.

If anything this year's NFL playoffs--where accuracy, decision making and leadership in your QB is your most important, and than rewatching the Rose Bowl and watching VY chew up with his arm and feet the next best thing to the NFL, it is made me think OMG VY should go #1. Carr may be more trustworthy now, but VY had a whole lot more complex defensive reads against much better competition than anything someone like Carr, Rothlesburger, Culpepper or Steve McNair even smelled at a comparable stage of development. Let's remember SC has 1st day draft quality DEs and DBs VY made look flat silly. Terrific athletes being used by the best defensive mind in college football, and they looked helpless to VY's combination of feet, arm, size and decision making.

Lee Corso said it and he was right, best performance he has seen by a college player and the team with the #1 pick would be crazy not to take VY. Ronnie Lott (SC alum and I am sure well acquinted with Palmer and Leinart) said VY is the best QB prospect he has seen in a lot time, this guy needs to go to the pros pronto. Once Bush and VY and ML were on the field together it just became so obvious who is the most special talent of the bunch. Granted this was heat of the moment stuff, but yeah, unless HUGE red flags (VY has hopeless arm/putrid Wonderlic type tests) come from the individual workouts VY is way too special to pass up (and of course the Texans should hold workouts for both players, I am not saying pick VY sight unseen).

 

Why? He hasn't made the necessary adjustments yet???

Rocket River

 

The whole Carr hasn't shown anything arguement gets sooo old. He has had crap to work with - period. It has been well established - ad nauseum - that our line sucks at pass blocking. Ask Manning how it felt to have guys in your face all freakin game. Manning did not perform well because of this. Brady did not either. John Lynch was in Brady's face so much Brady could have told you what he had for dinner, and again his numbers were decent but he did not play a great, Brady-like game.

NO QB CAN DO IT BY HIMSELF! They all need help. All the great ones played on good teams with weapons on the offensive side of the ball. I am not saying Carr is the greatest thing since sliced bread but you cannot judge him on his tenure here. I don't want to hear that he locks onto his receivers. AJ is the only one he has worth a crap, I'd lock onto him too. Besides you have to have TIME to scan a defense. We have no TE- TE usage is on the rise over the past several years - except for us. I wouldn't throw to stone hands Bruener either.

I am fine with "I prefer VY to Carr" - cool. I am fine with "they should have drafted Peppers", I would probably agree. Carr has been put into a situation where it has been almost impossible for anyone to succeed.

 

Maybe the line hasn't had crap to work with.

 

Another empty anti-Carr response. If Capers had stayed and said that we're going to keep our lineman. Would you still want Young, or would you drop the team altogether?

 

Or maybe they don't like him, and they refuse to block for him.

 

If that's the case we should probably be looking for a new QB

 

Or a new line

 

Vince Young would change Capers like he changed Mack Brown. See that's the difference, that's why no one talks about Lienart, Vince has the it.


Vince: no HISD had beaten Katy in seven years before Madison beat them, and I don't think an HISD team has beaten them since.

a UT team hadn't won a national title in 35 years, until vince came along. that's what vince has over carr, over lienart, over damn near every college qb prospect of the last 15 years. he changes attitudes around him. and that's a well documented fact.

 

It is SCARY how much we are agreeing these days.........

 

Before we get too loving and cozy to the idea of VY leading the Texans to the SB...remember this.....ALL final 4 QB's this year are averaging around 4 yards per gain rushing. They are ALL pocket QB's..not runners.
VY is, to scouts, not a very good pocket QB and I wonder how he will progress in the NFL as a pocket QB.
I think he is awesome, but I'm not interested in another Micheal Vick...those guys never win and get hurt more often.

I think Bush is the safest bet!

 

Yes...in High School and College. So did Andre Ware! David Klingler and a whole bunch of others!
Pro QB's are a different breed from Superstar High School and College QB's.
Lets just see what the pro scouts think.

 

Vince did not even win the state title (with courtney lewis also in his backfield), Reggie Mcneal did. So what happened to his "It" then or the year before VS OU or Missouri. I agree he may have "IT" now, but lets not lose our minds here. Vince would not have saved Capers.

 

Rumor has it he is tearing up the East/ West Shrine Bowl practices. He won't get drafted as a QB

 

Roger Staubach
John Elway
Steve Young
Brett Favre


What were you saying again?

DD

 

Vince played better against Westlake than Reggie did though. Check the numbers.


Madison's defense was the problem.

Also, look at Lufkin's record before/after Reggie and Madison's record before/after Vince. Lufkin is a winning program in a hellacious district. I think they have been since they got rid of Slaughter. Madison if I'm not mistaken, is a perennial also ran.

 

And Reggie couldn't win 6 games with Courtney Lewis in his backfield.