[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

And just think...48 more days of this fun.

 

You know, one time in high school, a teacher graded my scantron using the wrong key and I got a grade in the 40s. However, when the teacher used the right key, I got an A. I suppose by IC2000's logic, though, I'm a r****d and I really deserved the 40.

 

It depends. If he felt you looked like a mentally r****ded person, he'd make fun of you for that too. He's classy that way.

 

yup, this thread is the most greatestest, ever.

 

You really think this is going to end on draft day? I think it will just get started after that draft.

 

Please....it's many times more fascinating than discussing the typical boring ass 10 loss Texans season.

 

Every Vince supporter is so quick to point out Reggie's projected flaws but whenever someone posts a negative article about Vince people go crazy. If you are trying to make a point then backing up your claims with an article (whether you like the sports writer or not) is not in poor taste or ignorant. There are certain sports writers and analysts who lack credibility in everyone's eyes but that doesn't make it wrong to post an article.

One of the things I keep seeing is "If someone said that about Bush all you supporters would go crazy." Have you ever stopped to think there might be a reason why you don't see these types of articles about Reggie? The kid had the opportunity to go to Stanford and has always presented himself in a positive manner and is well spoken. There's no debating that.

This isn't hating on Vince but anyone who goes out in Houston knows that he parties a lot and if you listen to him talk we know that he doesn't really portray himself in a positive light. I'm not calling him names, debatingh is Wonderlich score 9dead horse) or judging what type of guy he is but simply saying he hasn't done a very good job of taking advantage of his super high stock after the Rose Bowl. The guy had all this hype around him (justifiably so) and so he was under a microscope. So far he has made poor decision about his representation (didn't prepare him for the test) and obviously haven't gotten him to a good pr person who can teach him how to excel in inteviews. People here know I've been pro Bush/Carr the whole time but also said if i was picking a QB amongst the three i would take young. I'm not sure of that anymore. What was once a forgone conclusion is now something I would think about. Now we're seeing him fall to the Raiders at 7 in certain mock drafts. No matter what anyone says that's going to cost him serious money (if it happens). His stock is dropping for a reason and people need to be able to recognize that (even if it isn't neccessarily talent related).

 

IMO it has been the other way around. I'll entertain and debate concerns or limitations to VY's game (and I’ll certainly respond to dumbass pot shots--which there are plenty). But you bring up concerns or limitations about Bush, and somehow you are insulting god's greatest gift to pro football. Given: 1) the guy typically was a non-factor in goal line or 1st down situations pretty much all his college career, and 2) hasn't even worked out yet (40 time at a particularly playing weight, strength and skills tests), pardon if I hold short declaring Reggie Bush is the surest thing to ever come into the NFL draft. IMO no question Reggie Bush has gotten a lot more of free pass in terms of media scrutiny. Definitely compared to both VY and ML, maybe it has a lot to do with the positions they play because ML was every bit as responsible (probably more) for SC impressive team success. Bush is a spectacular athlete, no doubt (then again so is VY), but that doesn’t make you the best football player.

IMO the mindset for R Bush being slam dunk the best prospect this year is a lot of the same mindset that lead to a landslide Heisman voting over a player who showed himself to be clearly the superior college player when the best of the best were all on the same field. At least the Walter Camp player of the year voters got it right. Shish, neither VY nor Bush nor ML has worked out yet, nothing of importance about the top 3 candidates has really happened between the Rose Bowl (when everybody, including former NFLers from SC included were saying VY is pro ready or that team would be crazy to pass him up in the draft) and now the same spin and hype completely unrelated to playing the game of football--the same kind that lead to the wildly incorrect group-think Heisman assessments, is all that has been taking place.

 

IC2000,

I don't get what you have against V Young?

I concede that Reggie Bush could be great, in fact, if the Texans draft him I hope he is great.

However, in my humble opinion, Vince Young is the next greatest thing.

There has never been a player like him in the NFL.....NEVER !

And he plays the most important position.

I will take the evaluations of Bill Walsh, Don Shula and many others that think it would be dumb to not draft a franchise QB when given that chance.

Of course the Texans have already screwed up one number one pick, why not another?

DD

 

Could you post the links for where Walsh and Shula said the Texans would be dumb not to select VY because he is a franchise QB? I hadn't seen those before.

 

You've pretty much annoited Young as a slam dunk in all of your posts though. That's fine, he's your choice but to say the Heisman voters missed the boat but the Walter Camp people didn't is an opinion.

To address what you said about Reggie:

1) Non factor on first down- that's just simply wrong. Lendale and him split carries. He had plenty of big plays on first down.

2) The goal line argument is old. Barry Sanders didn't get goal line carries for the most part. If you have a big RB with first round talent in the same backfield why give it to the smaller guy? That logic makes no sense and has no bearing on Reggie's ability whatsoever. Jerome bettis and Eddie George (both way past their primes) lasted extra years in the NFL strictly because they could pound it for 2-3 yds. Just because Reggie hasn't had to do it doesn't mean he can't.

Both guys are incredible athletes but i definitely feel (specially now) VY has a lot more question marks surrounding him. I heard UT's ooffense consisted of around 12 passing plays (I have no idea if it's true but it came from a pretty reliable person) so that doesn't strike me as complicated. Vince's biggest strength is his running ability. If you think Bush will get slowed down in the NFL what will happen to Vince. He's strong and deceptively fast (mostly because he takes long strides) but he runs upright. LBS and safeties are going ot go at his knees every chance they get. He's not an elusive runner like Vick and even he's getting injured on a pretty constant basis. I really don't like Young's throwing motion but the problem is that he's most effective with it. His delivery is a lot lower then Carr's and think how many passes he had batted down. I know he's bigger then David but he doesn't have David's mechanics or arm strength. I also don't think Vince puts enough zip on the ball to throw in tight spots. He is a touch passer.

Reggie is going to run fast at the combine and weight about 210. All you have to do is watch him play one game to know that

 

Link of Don Shula & Roger Staubach saying take Vince

"it was all the pro opinions in Detroit at Super Bowl XL. These include Don Shula, Roger Staubach, Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. Shula said there would be no question whom he would take as the first pick".

I am having difficulty tracking down Walsh's comments, though I believe I posted them earlier in this marathon thread.

DD

 

I bet that is what happened to Vince.

 

IC2000,

You are so jealous of Vince it is frightening. He is going to be a major success in life, both financially and on the football field.

You are going to be one miserable dude carrying all that hatred around.

Get over it, SHEESH !

DD

 

Anyone can say what they want about the absurdness of annointing Bush/VY467/Leinart/Cutler/whoever as the next Hall of Famer, but the level of viciousness thrown at VY467 by IC2000 and others is just sad.

 

I wish him the best, just not on the Texans. The guy makes me money and will continue to do so if he is good in the NFL.

 

what fun would it be if we all just sat around and jocked him all day.

 

I'm not asking anyone to do that? Are you saying it's fun to make fun of mentally r****ded people?

 

No you don't. You've trashed him forever.

I've got the feeling you'd cackle endlessly with the rest of the Hekyll & Jekyll crew if he was a flop, since he committed the cardinal sin of having a legendary college career by playing for a rival school and taking the spotlight away from gridiron legend Reggie "The Real Deal" McNeal. Of course, I can't say for sure because thus far most of your predictions in this area don't come true.

LOL, yup, and 4 months after that post he dumbed his way to one of the great seasons in all time, punctuated by one of the great performances of all time, in one of the biggest games in college football history. Dumb-da-dumb dumb!

Of course, after that, you changed your tone from "he can't read defenses cause he's like the idiot from Radio" (which, he's really not, unless you're the type of person to whom all blacks are aurally or visually indistinguishable - but that's another issue to discuss) to "well all of his receivers were wide open".

Yeah, and I guess throwing the ball to the wide open receivers is no indication of making the correct read, right?

 

IMO, the hype surrounding Bush is ridiculous. Before the Fresno State game he wasn't even leading the heisman watch on ESPN. Because of that one game people started talking about how he's the next coming of Sayers, Sanders, etc. Everyone started using the term "transcended" *ugh* as if he was a god or something. Simply put, he had one incredible game against a team that wasn't suited to handle his speed, and the following week he had a great game against a rival, UCLA. This is a great testament of Carroll's coaching; he recognized a weakness and exploited it.

Before then most people would agree that Matt Leinart should be picked over Bush. Many VY haters claim that one great game (the Rose Bowl) shouldn't be enough to catapult someone to the #1 pick. But that's exactly what happened with RB, its just that his came before the Heisman voting so now people around the country can point to his Hesiman trophy as more proof that he's ready for the NFL, how quickly people forget about Jason White. VY has been spectacular the past couple of years (except for two games A&M and OK), the numbers say it all as far as performance throughout the year.

I'm not saying RB isn't a great player or he won't do well in the NFL, its just that I haven't forgotten about the games where he underperformed his potential. His longest streak of 100 yard games was 5. He only had two 100+ yard rushing games in 2004. Yea he didn't get too many carries in a few of those games but if he was truly "trancended" and was a great pro playing in the college ranks he shouldn't have any trouble getting touches. Looking over the past 2-3 seasons IMO, RB doesn't match up with VY or ML.