[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

I have no problem with people wanting VY Or ML over Cutler..

I just think it's unfair when most people have barely even seen Cutler play... and it's especially unfair to compare him to VY or ML based soley on workouts when the other two didn't even workout

 

opps..

Desert.. I don't think Cutler will be the first qb off the board.. as of now I think he will probably be the 3rd qb taken .. largely because people would complain about passing up the big name guys.

BUT.. I think Cutler in the end will be just as good a pro as ML.. I think the experience of being on a team without the most talent will actually help him when he goes to a young team that isn't going to win much at first

 

I'm still holding out hope because I don't think Carr has what it takes to take us to the top and things like this give me reason to hold out hope...

 

"Vince Young is in the mix for the first pick," Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly says."He's a special talent. He's a heck of an athlete, and he has the arm strength to make all the NFL throws."

link

 

Do you actually believe that? By the way it sounds to me is Bob McNair went to everyone on the Texans and said to speak highly of VY so that you won't upset the local fanbase. Heck, even David Carr during his press conference was speaking highly of VY, going as far to say he would be open to having a talent like him on the team.

 

Have you seen Gallery play or are you just remembering the hype surrounding him coming out of the draft. He's not very good. Porter is inconsitent and Moss complains if he doesn't get enough touches and quits on routes. Look what happened between Culpepper and Moss (and Culpepper is similar to Young in some ways).

Lamont Jordan had a good year scoring and receiving ( Collins checked off to him a lot) but his ypc were pretty bad if I remember correctly). I think VY needs more of an explosive back then a pounder like Lamont Jordan.

In In Tennessee he has his mentor in McNair and they can develop him while building sround him. It's not like they are going to be contending any time soon. In terms of his development, Tenn is the best spot for him.

 

Gallery isn't good. Go and talk to the same Raiders fans (the ones who told us Buchanon sucked and we wouldn't listen) and ask about Gallery. He's ok but so far he's been a bust.

The Saints are the worst option because of their situation right now but other then that they aren't that bad if you think about it. Horn is top notch when healthy, Stallworth finally broke out, and if Deuce can stay healthy he's a top 10 back. They are actually very similar to the Raiders except they don't have a consistant place to play

 

John Elway stills was the runner up in the Heisman and passed for 9,349 yards his career. 77 touchdowns and 62% completion (and lowest int% in history at that time). He also was the best performer in college all star games.

from: http://www.ukhof.com/
Couch completed 400 of 553 passes for 4,275 yards and 36 touchdowns. He led the nation in pass completions while ranking second in completion percentage, passing yardage and touchdown passes, and was fourth in total offense. He guided the Wildcats to the Outback Bowl, UK’s first New Year’s Day bowl appearance in 47 years, finishing fourth in the Heisman Trophy balloting.

A finalist for the Davey O’Brien National Quarterback Award as a junior and sophomore, Couch had a breakout sophomore campaign with 363 of 547 passes completed for 3,884 yards and 37 touchdowns. He led the nation in pass attempts, completions, yardage, and completion percentage.



Now lets look at Cutler.

Stat Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2002 103 212 1433 48.6 6.76 59 10 9 17 112.44
2003 187 327 2347 57.2 7.18 59 18 13 16 127.69
2004 147 241 1844 61.0 7.65 80 10 5 24 134.81
2005 273 462 3073 59.1 6.65 47 21 9 23 126.07

Sorry, I don't think anything stands out.

Cutler isn't the 1st guy to play with crappy teammates in a tough conference at the time (Elway, Couch, Eli too--notice the drop off after their QBs left, could say the same with Alex Smith, Utah went from undefeated to terribly mediocre in a weak conference without him), and Cutler's record (rating, compeltion %, INT %, team winning) just isn't that impressive.

Than you couple that with a crapy senior bowl when his teammate QB played very well, it doesn't look good. Granted this is a small sample (1 game, unusual players), but you can't argue he didn't have talent around him there and didn't look good at all on the field.

Again I haven't seen much of him at Vandy, I admit that. I certainly could be wrong. But when I put the pieces available to me together I certainly don't see how he has a good case as the best QB prospect in this draft. He could have better typical NFL tools than ML or VY, but the other guys don't have bad tools and you are passing on a lot of intangebles that favor the other guys. There is no way to tell if Cutler would have been as poised, focused and consistent as ML and VY proved with their teams. Both guys made lots of plays at the critical time for their teams to stay undefeated, you can't just assume Cutler would have always had the calm head and consistent execution. The biggest game Cutler ever played at Vandy in terms of pressure, scrutiny and media attention is just not on the same planet of what the other 2 faced every week.

 

Actually leading Vandy to a 5 game win season really is doing some good work.. he's the reason we had a shot at a bowl game..

And the senior bowl wasn't that bad.. he did have some dropped passes..

Cutler has a strong arm, a lot of the passes he had dropped in college won't be dropped in the NFL. He had a tough situation at Vandy and if you watched his games you'd see he had a lot of poise to keep us in games that normally we'd never be in.

We very easily could have won 7 or 8 games this year with just a little more talent around him.. he has no RB

All the scouts that saw him throughout the year liked the guy.. he played against some of the best talent in the country in the SEC and there is no reason to think he wouldn't perform well just because the team was undefeated...

Every time Texas switches QBS, they still win.. a lot of QBS could have had winning records at Texas and USC.. I don't think Jay would have any trouble competing for champs at USC

 

And I know one thing.. Jay doesn't get the calls where his knee is down in the Rose Bowl but they still give him a TD

the only reason he wasn't in a bowl this year was because the refs decided to call insane excessive celebration calls in a game against Florida at the buzzer

 

that's because Jay doesn't make that run to begin with.

 

maxmad.. lol, he actually makes more runs than you'd think..

My point was yes it takes some poise to be in big games, but it also takes some poise to play on a struggling team where you get no calls etc..

there is a fine line between situations that make you hero and not a hero. a couple years ago Jay throws a hail marry pass that would win a game

If Vince does it, he is a hero

Jay does it and they call over the line of scrimmage when he never crossed the line of scrimmage..

 

I'm still trying to figure out what that has to do with anything.

 

rocketman95..

I was just trying to make the point that staying calm when all calls go against you and you are facing teams with more talent every week is not easy either.. seems like it would be easy to stay calm in a big game when you know you have talent around you to make plays


the majority of fans are basing their thoughts on jay on very limited knowledge of him... whereas the scouts that are ranking him high are basing it on actually watching games

 

good. let's take the guy who gets the calls then.

 

and my point was a call here or there and he wins the 6 games..

I don't thinking winning 6 games and a bowl suddenly makes you magically better than someone who only wins 5 games and a bowl...

the guy has the skills.. put him behind a decent OL etc and he'll blow up...


we've seen what happens with carr, it's a lot easy to be a good qb when you have a good ol..

cutler's stats would be a lot better than they are with Texas or USC OL

 

madmax..

haha, sorry I'm still mad about the excessive celebration call when we had a chance to win at Florida

I don't think "we" are taking either, because I sure don't expect the texans to take a qb...

I actually hope Jay is the 3rd qb taken because I think New Orleans could kill a career.. and I don't like titans.. and they are all utenn fans anyways

I think the Raiders (where Kiper currently has him going) are actually a good fit

 

You're right, he has been a bust so far, but that's only because of how high he was taken. Gallery is a pretty servicable lineman and definitely wouldn't be receiving this much hate if he wasn't picked so high (kinda obvious I know).

The Saints have some good players as well, but there's a reason why they are one of the worst teams year in year out. New Orleans is a mess by itself, Benson is an a$$ IMO, can't really comment on Payton since I don't know much about him.

As for the Raiders, Moss is still the best receiver in the league. He is probably the perfect receiver for VY since many claim he has "accuracy issues." Sure he's had some attitude problems in the past, but that was mainly between Culpepper and him. Saying VY and Culpepper are similar won't affect anything since it was probably personality issues that fueled the fights.

I guess we both agree that the Titans would be the best fit, but I think the Raiders are a much, much better situation for VY than NO.

 

I think Tennessee is the perfect place for him (I always have). In terms of the Saints of the Raiders, it's a coin flip to me. If he could go into NO and turn that team around he'd have a whole city behind him and still wouldn't be that far away from his hometown. I've never liked the Raiders as a team and i think they are going down quickly.

In terms of Moss, I don't even think he's the best anymore. He's still top 5 but I'm sick of him like i am of TO. I wouldn't want either on my team. One guy only tries when he when he wants to and the other guy only plays for stats and a paycheck. Forget them both. I'd rather have a guy like Harrison or even Larry Fitzgerald on my team.

 

The Raiders have some of craziest fans in sports. If VY was able to turn them around, he would be absolutely worshipped by those guys and the city, it could also work against him as well I guess The same could be said for the Saints, but they don't have much of a city right now IMO.

Play wise, Moss is still one of the best WRs in the game. He still turned out a pretty decent year despite how bad the Raiders were. I'm not saying I like his attitdue or anything like that, but talent wise, he's elite.