Jesus took punishment on the cross for my sin, and the sin of all men and women for all time. I guess what that says about punishment depends upon how you feel about His suffering on the cross. Years ago this meant very litttle to me, today I have no problem understanding how great a sacrifice Jesus made so I could be forgiven and believing in it. I think the suffering of Jesus on the cross was more horrible than all the punishment combined that men could ever come up with for evil.
We should be God's hands and feet. We should be one with His heart. We should sell our material things and help the suffering.
I was talking about Jesus dealings with devil, devils, Satan... references He made to whatever name you want to give him, it, them. Actually I was listing verses that dealt with the concept of a devil. Fulfilling the Old Testament meant that He is the savior of the world. That simple. Fall of man... OK man is sinful by nature. I don't think the Old Testament misses on that point and neither did Jesus. I do not ignore the Old Testament at all. I use Jesus as a filter when I consider its meaning.
I am typing as fast as I can, hopefully tomorrow I will be rested and better able to answer. Jesus is awesome, He died for the sins of the world.
http://folk.ntnu.no/erlenkra/Daily Radar Feature - 20 Gnarliest Torture Devices of All Time.htm I dunno man, some pretty bad **** went down when religions would fight. But about sacrificing himself....Why did jesus need to sacrifice himself for humanities sin?? Primitive humans were not introduced to such standard of not sinning to get into heaven. They naturally would kill and steal from other humans in order to survive. Why would god give us such an instinct to survive, if in fact you should just die as fast as you can without sinning so you can go chill on a cloud in pardise for eternity? the whole live on the world deal wouldn't make much sense.
Your understanding of this will depend upon your definition of love and justice. Justice is a powerful principle. Especially moral justice.
Rhester, some excellent posts; email me sometime, let's catch up. I have sort of lost the direction of this thread, but I have a few comments on your recent remarks. 1. The longer and harder I study the more I see the unity of the two testaments of the Bible. I remember when I was absolutely lost in the O.T., very frustrated, and confused. I recall when I was so angry with the letters of Paul that I stopped reading and studying them. Today, it is like everything looks different. I don't recall when I broke through to how compatible the two testaments are, but there has been a dramatic shift in my understanding. 2. Also, without at least acknowledging the "Star Wars" like Conflict in Heaven, the whole of Salvation History doesn't make sense. Mysterious, yes; real, definitely. We are engaged in an unseen conflict that is more real than the hand in front of our face. Most people think that is nuts. 3. So many in our era are obsessed with cultural context as if nothing transcends culture. This is so strange to me. As much as Jesus was a person of the period, He clearly transcended time and place when He said things like, "before Abraham was, I AM," and "I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning." For centuries, in hundreds of different cultures the Message of Salvation has been communicated and received through native languages and the connection of common humanity. Moderns and post-moderns can't conceive of that happening and are desperate to solve a problem that never existed. When you use plain language people still get it. They may not want to hear it, receive it, or live it, but they get it. Reforming the message to make it something people want is a completely different matter.
We need to catch up, God has blessed me with my first grandson (due in Jan. ) I also find perfect unity and compatibility with the Old and New Testament in the context of Jesus the Messiah. Within God's covenant dealings with Abraham, the patriarchs, Moses and the moral law, the judges, kings beginning with Saul; highlighted by David, the priesthood and the prophets there is a wonderous frame of God's character, grace, love and truth that highlights the beautiful gift of our Savior. This Christmas nothing compares to the message of the angels in the night sky over the Middle East those many years ago- "Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a SAVIOR, which is Christ the LORD. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lying in a manger...Glory to God in the highest, and on earth, peace, good will toward men" Jesus is the Savior of the world.
