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Lovie Smith Fired

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Htown Legend, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    No. They should have hired a competent coach and let him build his foundation while they cleaned up their mess.

    No one is arguing Culley and/or Lovie were good choices - neither were. But after whiffing on Culley, knowing you were not a year away, and against a backdrop in which BHCs have been rightly railing against questionable hiring practices... If you're going to hire another BHC, you better get it pretty close to right. Everyone knew Lovie Smith was not that person. They invited this criticism, and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone is rushing to their defense? Not recognizing the racial implications of what they did is rooted in how incompetent this organization is.
     
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  2. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Weren't Gannon and Flores both considered desirable candidates last year? (Isn't Gannon *still*?) They were both finalists, and Gannon reportedly had the job until Caserio interfered with his staffing. So the idea Lovie Smith was the best they could is simply not true.

    After they wasted their time angling for a not-racist way to bring in Josh McCown and that brutally stupid idea collapsed around them, *then* Lovie Smith became the best they could do.
     
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  3. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Caserio absolutely maximized the Watson trade. But, also... he was trading a 26-yo franchise QB to a pack of ravaging assholes who didn't care that he was an abhorrent scumbag. That was about as hard as throwing a rock from a boat and hitting water.

    His 2021 draft was not good. His 2022 has flashed potential - but, who knows? He inherited one of the worst rosters in NFL history and hasn't added one significant piece to it in two years (outside of the draft). Are any of these guys actually good? Or, are they just the skinniest kids at fat camp? Jury is waaaaaay out on that.

    Re: head coaches, there are basically two options: 1) he was actively involved in the hiring of Culley and Smith, which is bad for all the obvious reasons; 2) he was not involved, which begs the question why he'd take and keep a job in which the owner neutered him on the organization's most critical hire.

    Neither is a good look for him.
     
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  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    Not adding a single significant player to the roster in two years is ridiculous. We need to sign the best free agents available this year, and nothing less!
     
  5. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You're literally exemplifying the problem and why the Texans are getting deserved criticism.... and the fact that both of those decisions happened to be minorities (whether they intended to do so or not) is why they're getting extra blame.
     
  7. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member
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  8. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    This mindset, if implemented, would stack the deck even further against minority HCs. You’re basically saying, “think twice before hiring a black coach bc people will crush you for firing him so you better get it right or you’re stuck with him”.

    Do you not see the inherent irony in that??
     
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  9. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    Yeah I hated the lovie hire, and culley was a nightmare. I’m not arguing they’re brilliant. I just don’t think it’s bc of racism.
     
  10. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Inadvertent or “accidental” practices that can be questioned easily in regards to race… which is certainly the case here… is a form of racism. Probably even worse because they’re unaware or subconscious about the ramifications of their decision making pattern.

    They deserve to be called out on it. They brought it upon themselves. There’s really nothing to “defend” at this point.
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    The talent thing can't be understated which is why I'm more bearish on their immediate turnaround prospects than most.

    He inherited a roster totally bereft of talent and has added ONE sure fire plus player and that's the RB. Even a guy like Pitre that showed some talent had MAJOR glaring problems on defense. Sure those could get better, but no guarantee. You would not look at this roster and say "man, they've drafted well and have an interesting young talent core!"

    They seem to have no idea how to build an offensive line or hire good offensive line coaches.

    It's basically a giant shoulder shrug evaluation at this point.
     
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  12. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    As I responded to Hey Now, this mindset of “think twice before hiring a black coach bc people will crush you for firing him so you better get it right or you’re stuck with him, or you’re a racist for firing him” is stacking the deck even further against minority HCs. It’s logically moronic and it completely works against the agenda of giving more opportunities to minority HCs.

    I’m fairly certain the front office had the perspicacity to realize the optics of this, but they quickly fired Lovie anyway, bc it was needed. That’s a positive sign in my eyes. You wanna call it racist? Go ahead, neither of us are going to change the others opinion.
     
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  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    For the last time, firing a coach for failure wasn’t the inadvertent racist part…. Its hiring coaches that don’t have qualifications to be head coaches in the first place with the intention of firing them, while also checking off the minority box in an attempt to seem “benevolent” that is the problem.

    There were other minority candidates they could have been considered/hired who were actual HC candidates in the league…. Bienemy, McDaniel, Leftwich, even Caldwell. All of them had a better chance of being a HC that had potential longevity here than the token hires they ended up going with.

    The Texans should first and foremost…stop hiring fall guys. And if they also happen to be minorities who are not league-wide HC candidates, really really (really) think twice about your actions.
     
  14. houstonstime

    houstonstime Member

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    Which part says there was no intention of long term? The multi-year contract? And it’s hard to say we were picking anyone long term if NO ONE WANTED THE JOB…
     
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  15. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    Everyone knows that McDaniel and Leftwich were better options, but I don't think they had a realistic chance at hiring a coach like that, even last year, and nor do most people. But it's fine to bring up unrealistic options when perpetrating a race narrative because it's super convenient.

    Lovie Smith was a stupid hire. No argument from me. I hated it at the time and I hate it even worse now. They should have let Gannon pick his own staff. I can't remember if they reached out to Bienemy either year, but they should have at least tried to talk to him if they didn't. Hell, Flores would have probably been okay if he didn't sue the league. Who is arguing that the Texans have been a brilliant organization or made awesome coaching hires?

    This whole argument is nonsense. When the 49ers hired two 1 and done coaches that were white, nobody gave a flying ****. So they're less racist bc they didn't even consider hiring a minority coach at all? This is all bass ackwards to me.

    Does anyone seriously think they would fire Demeco Ryans after 1 year? Bc he's an incredibly qualified candidate that looks like he'll be an awesome HC! Hell, If Lovie Smith had the Texans sitting with 6 or 7 wins, he would still have his damn job. It doesn't mean he was going to be HC for a decade, but they wouldn't have fired him after one year.
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

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    What part of intent are you not getting? The 49ers didn't hire either of those coaches with the intent to fire them immediately - they underperformed. Same as Urban Meyer and Nathaniel Hackett. All of these coaches were hired with the hope that they'd be successful. The problem with the Texans is they hired unqualified coaches completely with the intent of firing them soon after. And this happened for the 2nd time immediately after a lawsuit was filed against the NFL specifically stating that teams hire black coaches with the intent for them to fail and get fired.
     
  17. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    Yeah they thought Jim Tomsula was going to be their long term HC. Give me a ****ing break.

    The Texans didn't hire Culley and Lovie to fire them after 1 year. That doesn't even make sense. Even if the plan was for sure to get a long term HC in 2023, then it wouldn't make financial sense to pay 2 guys 8+ years to bridge 2 years. Culley turned into an absolute nightmare, and it wasn't even just the on the field. You could argue they performed up to expectations. So he was canned. Lovie would still be here if the Texans had 6 or 7 wins and he was using Stingley correctly. Instead, we won 3 and ****ed up the 1st overall pick and he used Stingley like an undrafted FA. Either one of those coaches would have had more time if they weren't objectively awful.
     
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  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Neither HC was ever going to be a HC anywhere else. They were fall guys. It was suspected at the time of hiring… and came true when they fired them. They deserve all of this.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You’re really grasping. They could have sought out an up and coming coordinator. They didn’t. They went with somebody who would never have been a HC in his lifetime otherwise, but was also advanced enough in his career that he wasn’t going to be a long term solution.

    This was completely suspected the second they hired him. Doubly suspected when they hired Lovie. I’m sorry you didn’t see it, I’m sorry you think this is unfair. Maybe you feel like the Texans do and you all honestly still think you were right?
     
  20. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    This is not a general perspective, applicable to any and all coaching hires. It is specific to the Houston Texans, a very bad football team that really wanted to hire a wholly unqualified white head coach. So, no - teams should not think twice before hiring Black head coaches if those coaches are qualified - but the Texans sure-as-**** should have after David Culley.
     

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