When you draft a guy late 2nd round, that outperforms 75% of his draft class, and his paid 75% less, than yes, I still think it's relevant. It's okay if we don't agree. Regarding the minutes played, are you really gonna grasp at those straws? So NBA experience doesn't factor into a GM's decision when scouting? NBA experience has no value for a young player on a rookie contract? You say a GM should know whether they like a player or not. They do that through footage of his minutes played and his stats. More minutes means a larger sample size. I think we may just be misunderstanding each other because I don't think I'm saying anything outlandish, pretty basic stuff.
@SamFisher can post the statistics but my personal observations are that Tate is “fine” defensively, he is above average in some match ups and he is below average in others. He isn’t a defensive stopper or even someone you want to guard the best player on the other team and probably not the second best either. He plays smart most of the time defensively but he has some physical limitations and at times doesn’t switch fast enough. I think because he at times defends players bigger than him, that fans assume he must be pretty good defensively. Martin is a mixed bag defensively. His arms are short, sometimes he isn’t confident in his rotations and isn’t great laterally. He is however a really explosive athlete and is quick in a straight line and has a lot of hang time. These gifts allow him to make a lot of plays and also covers some of his flaws. Tate is a player that helps contribute to a contending team and can fit a role well. He is largely wasted on the Rockets and he isn’t a young player or under a long term contract. He is the type of player that the Rockets should be trading to contending teams for assets. A contending coach loving Tate because he is low maintenance guy that is easily coachable and will allow the coach to concentrate on other issues is fine. A 20-30 win coach holding on to players like Gordon and Tate are selfish or lazy. On a true rebuilding team coaching young and raw players is imperative.
If Stone was to trade KMJ, he should try to trade him for a PG that can play 20-25 mins per game. I thought I made this clear in my previous post. I guess not for some.
I want to see kj Martin this season May be trading him after all star break so his value will be higher I think he will have a good season with rockets.
I really hope KJ buys into what we are doing here. The future is bright and he could be a huge part of it. Huge fan of his low-mistake play on both ends of the court.
Other than defensive centers, I typically associate shorter guys defending bigger players as a sign they are too slow laterally to defend guys their own height or that the team is trying to get an offensive advantage. I saw Tate having to play PF as a necessity based on team roster. This may be a bias of mine, but KMJ not getting minutes at the SF with Tate at the PF is a red flag for me regarding defense. Personally, I'm not high on either Tate or KMJ. I see KMJ as a better offensive spacer/cutter with Tate providing more creation and more defense (above average, but not good or great). I don't have much issue with the minutes allocation. Silas started the season playing rookies/young players less, but ramped up over the season. I'm not too big on having veterans to provide a guiding force, but also don't see the big deal as the Rockets only had Gordon who was long in the tooth. I do think it is important to have some semblance of an NBA team so that the young players can sometimes have space on the court or have defenders on the court to help them learn defense even if both don't happen at the same time.
What has he accomplished in the NBA a 21? He has not even carved out consistent minutes on a team that historically bad. He would be drafted as a mid 1st round for the same reason he was not drafted in the 1st to begin with he still has most of the same flaws. What known commodities are you getting with KJ? I would rather gamble on upside with a late 1st than be happy with KJ leading to a 2nd contract.
Outperfermed 75% of his draft class? Wut? GM's do not value experience over upside unless they are a contender and KMJ still does not have much experience and thats even when playing for a team that was terrible. 75% of most draft classes don't make it to a 2nd contract with there teams so I don't know why you would use that as a metric and I am not sure that even is true. What has KMJ actually done in the NBA?
Houston Rockets Trade Breakdown Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg. Incoming Players Nassir Little 22 year old, 6-5, 220 lb SF from North Carolina No games yet played in 2022-2023 Outgoing Players Garrison Mathews 25 year old, 6-5, 215 lb SG from Lipscomb No games yet played in 2022-2023 K.J. Martin 21 year old, 6-7, 215 lb F from IMG Academy (Florida) No games yet played in 2022-2023
Good point. 1 of these players creates more spacing. One of these players is much younger. Hmm… who should a rebuilding team play?
I get your point, I just don' think it negates mine. I'd be happy with a late 1st first as well. I'm sure if it's negotiated, the other team will start with a second rounder and the Rockets will start with mid 1st rounder, and everyone will meet in the middle.
There is no team is going to trade a 1st for a guy who can't get minutes on a team that was the worst in the NBA. No team values a guy who can't create his own shot and is not good at defense and is undersized. What is your point by the way?
If they were the only 2 players in the discussion then you may have a point. However, player development is about having 4 other guys on the court who know what they are doing to enable the player you are developing to do what they need to do. It is complex and varied depending on what you are aiming for in each particular player - often there is more than 1 guy you are developing. I look at our roster and see the following Green Smith Sengun Porter Eason Christopher Nix/ Washington These are all guys I am aiming to develop AHEAD of KJ Martin (who is an exciting straight line run and jump John Collins lite role player - but at best a role player). I don't mind playing a scrapper who is a better passer and gives those other guys (the first 5 in particular) a better chance to reach their potential. I also don't mind playing a 2 way vet 20mpg who is happy to sit around and drill 3s at 40% (as long as he is having fun!). My thoughts are that those are helpful in the development of younger guys - particularly the ones who have higher ceilings
He’s averaging 22 minutes a game roughly for his career so far. That’s not nothing. For a 2nd round pick, I’d say that’s actually pretty damn good. What upside do you think some random player available with a late first is going to have over KJ Martin? Will he be more athletic? Guaranteed no. Will he be a better shooter? Maybe. Better defender? Possibly. Or will he be a complete bust, or someone like Garuba, who frankly hasn’t shown nearly as much as KJ? Look, I’m fine with trading him if he wants out, but let’s put it this way, if I could get him for a late first, I would totally do that. KJ is still developing, he’s still young, and he’s an elite athlete. His shooting has improved. He’s basically doing just about everything you’d want out of a mid to late first round pick, so I wouldn’t personally be in a hurry to give him away for one. I mean you might get lucky and get someone a lot better, or you might end up with Royce White. I’d personally take my chances developing what I already know. The one thing that changes that though is if he really wants out. In that case, you take the pick and run with it. He’s not good enough to be a distraction.
