Ok he is a credible shooter but nobody really cares about him shooting the ball and he does not do much else offensivley except dunk. He is a bad at defense so he is not even a 3 and D guy, what positions can KJ defend? Tate can defend 1 through 5 credibly, not great but he will not be torched on switches. Tate is a playmaker and can create his own shot better than KJ, Tate is better at everything else other than shooting than KJ, and we don't need shooting since we Tari and Smith who both can play and benefit from playing with Tate unlike KJ. In what world should KJ be getting minutes over Smith or Tari? And why should he play over tate who is a much better playmaker and defender?
I've been saying this in another thread, but basically everything that Sengun does that doesn't really fit with an elite guard/permieter ballhandler offense (whether those guards are Green, KPJ, Scoot Henderson, Chris Paul, James Harden) Kenyon Martin Jr. actually does do. He creates space with his 3 point shooting. He's a decent defender especially as a weak-side shotblocker, He runs the floor and is a dangerous finisher who plays above the rim. He's actually probably better at finishing on the break and catching alley oops than Jabari Smith at this stage That's actually why I was kind of miffed the Rockets opted for the "value contract" of Tate rather than Martin over the summer espeically if the opportunity cost was losing Martin. If you had to pick a player to lose for nothing, I'd lose Tate for nothing as he's a worse fit and less upside due to age - but apparently they saw differently.
What upside does KJ have? What do you see him becoming? What great things has he done, high lite dunks and hit a 3 every once in a while?
So is KJ at his peak what's the point? Tate does everything else better than KJ at a high level except shoot.
I see him becoming a starting 3 on a good team that thrives off the ball as a solid 3 point shooter, a high energy slasher, an energy player, a good defender, shot blocker, transition star.
Good teams need more from a starting 3 than that, most good teams have wings that are much better defensively. Martin is not even a slasher, he can't really take anybody off the dribble. Martin not a good defender, he is a bad defender. Give me a starting comp for Martin from a good team?
He's been in the league 2 years, age 21 with sporadic playing time. Expecting him to be a good defender already is probably unrealistic of you. He does a lot of good things that are worth developing. He screens well, he plays well in the PnR, he attacks the basket well which is what I meant as slasher, not an iso guy. He has upside to be a very good complimentary player around stars because he can do things that don't require the ball in his hands for much of a possession.
I just feel like KMJ is at a awkward height to be playing the way he does well. He is a great shot blocker, but needs space to launch. He's a little too slow to defend the perimeter, and a little too short/weak to defend PF and Centers. He excels in the open court, and can hit the open 3, but his ball handling is really not great for any half court plays to be drawn for him.
Wait wut? Both Smith and Tari are already better defenders than KJ what does him being 21 and 2 years in the NBA have to do with anything? No he does not attack the basket well he can't dribble and has zero moves just because he gets a whooo dunk evry once in while does not mean he attacks the basket well. What does he do that's complimentary at a high level that makes up for him being a defensive liability? The reason he gets sporadic playing time is because he does not bring much to the team and with the new wings he is going to get even less time mainly because he bad at defense. So are you gonna give me these comps that are starting on good teams?
Can't see how anyone would be happy with a 2nd for KJ. If his class was redrafted, he may go top 15. I think a late 1st rounder is fair value.
So we can have like a 10-20% chance of getting a prospect with equal or higher upside and productivity of 21 year old KJ? Don't see why. We have a very athletic young wing with size who plays defense, hits 3's, is very efficient, low foul rate, low turnover rate, plays well of ball ... ? What are we doing here
We don't need him to take people off the dribble if he can provide floor spacing and run the floor. And I think it's silly to characterize him as a bad defender relative to his experience level unless you have examples of it. If you just are using advanced metrics that's kind of a red herring - the entire rockets team was bad by design on defense and all of their metrics are awful for most of the guys who played substantial minutes and didn't get rebounds .- it's hard to really draw any conclusions from it. I do know that he's a good weakside shotblocker, has ok size, etc - i don't see why he can't become an archetypical 3 & D wingman on a good team. Jaesean Tate has the D but he's going to have to find the 3 that he's never had in 6 years of being a pro. That one thing is enormous when the descriptoin of the job is 3 & D wing. A D only wing is not very useful in the modern NBA. becuasee it bascially means you have to scheme around him on offense all the time. A good 3 pointer with average defense has a lot more utility and flexibilty.
yup, i think we may just have to hold him hostage. We'll need his fifteen minutes off the bench next year and the year after. he can leave after that if he wants. Where can we find a good 8th or ninth man at that cheap of a price?
KMJ needs to go now, as he won't see the floor behind what we have. Any perceived upside by a suitor will likely leave soon. He's a helluva finisher on put backs and such plus can stick the three with some degree of success. That's it though. KMJ has horrible footwork on both sides of the ball, no handles, and a bad attitude/loud, controlling Father. Tate shoud be gone within the year. He has no upside, but will make a decent role player somewhere. His contract when combined with other assets will be a facilitating piece in a deal for someone better. We're a rebuilding team and neither is in our longterm plans. PERIOD.
I feel like I have argued this for over a year now, Tate is a finished product who doesn’t fit the modern nba (spacing/no high level skill set in one area) KJ has tremendous upside and is 21. The SF rotation should be him and Tari. At this point, I hope KJ gets traded to the Heat (culture) or the Suns (coaching) so he gets consistent minutes. Book mark this because KJs going to be an excellent rotation player and CF is gonna b**** about it 4 years from now.
Realistically KMJ > Tate, but I want to see if Tate really improved his three point shot. Right now hes just a poor mans PJ Tucker
