In this case, I don't believe so, in some others you could be onto something. On KJM, I think a lot of people hold the "trade request" against him and want him gone because they don't think he wants to be here. It's like KPJ leaving the arena, people just can't get over it .... Thing is, I'm not so sure it was KJ who made the demand but his daddy who didn't like the sporadic minutes he was getting. If that had continued, he'd have been out of the league and playing in China or one of the Euro leagues. Now that he's getting consistent minutes and looking like he deserves a 2nd contract, it's no longer an issue. A lot of the issue last year was playing him out of position as a 4 or small ball 5 on many occasions - He just doesn't have the size for that. He's a natural 3 and that's where he should get the bulk of his minutes.
If you can see that Jalen Green will fetch more value on the trade market, then it means every team perceives Green as having a greater ceiling. Trading him would make no sense unless you think you can evaluate talents better than every other GM, especially at this stage when Green's value isn't even remotely near top value. It's even more ridiculous to trade Green to bring in Jaden Ivey and Jalen Suggs. That's such a ridiculously favorable trade for the Magic and Pistons.
Ok troll - so let's get this straight You discount a year and a half of service in the NBA as not having happened for KPJ (the coaching didn't happen, the practices didn't happen, and he didn't age over that time frame) You believe KPJ and Jalen Green to essentially be the same player despite an age gap, experience gap, and very different core strengths You think people aren't fans of the Rockets if they see things different than you - especially with respect to the two points above You recognize that the team is imbalanced and are in favor of trading the player that is universally (outside of your troll universe) regarded as the better player with more upside With respect to KMj - you've already made your full assessment and have deemed his ceiling and are ready to trade him - despite his continued improvement (he truly has a 3 pointer now), his energy and his fit without the ball in his hands Conversely, you sing the praises of patience with KPJ despite much more time on court, much less improvement, and red flags all around him You believe the team has made a significant investment in KPJ and that he's guaranteed a starting point guard role for the next 2 seasons despite the team only giving up a second round pick to acquire him and giving him a contract they can walk away from at any point in time Should I go through your track record of player evaluation? Should I go through your post frequency or reiterating the same crap in every thread multiple times? Should I go through the fact that you call out others for cherry picking and crafting arguments to fit their narrative when that is clearly your go to move? Should I go through the fact that you don't engage in discussion and remain one side and defer to name calling and insults when people call you on your b.s. go ahead. reply back with whatever negativity you want. I don't need the last word. It's funny to see you worked up over my posts and slinging insults. It would get interesting if you actually took the time to analyze your thoughts, listen to alternative points of view, and show growth.
I really like KJM and am happy he’s doing well. I’d like to extend him and keep him around for a long time. I think he can be a valuable piece on a winning team. But the reality is that you have 5 starting spots and the rest are role players of varying significance. As it stands, I don’t think this team has even found 5 true NBA starters yet. And while I like KJM, I don’t think he will ever be a true option as one. So while I do not want to ship him off for picks or another project, I think we have to be willing to use him to upgrade a starting position if he is the piece to get it done.
Houston Rockets Trade Breakdown Change in Team Outlook: -0.0 ppg, -0.9 rpg, and +0.8 apg. Incoming Players Andrew Nembhard 22 year old, 6-5, 193 lb PG from Gonzaga 8.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 24.2 minutes in 2022-2023 Oshae Brissett 24 year old, 6-7, 210 lb PF from Syracuse 5.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 15.4 minutes in 2022-2023 Outgoing Players K.J. Martin 21 year old, 6-7, 215 lb F from IMG Academy (Florida) 11.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 24.5 minutes in 2022-2023 Daishen Nix 20 year old, 6-5, 224 lb GF from NBA G League Ignite 3.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 2.5 apg in 15.0 minutes in 2022-2023
Yes, because he was troubled, and didn't really play that much as a 19 year old, and his time in Cleveland doesn't really matter to the Rockets - I can understand others who disagree, but all I care about is what about as a Rocket. I sure do, they are both up and coming shooting guards, and while others have annointed Green, I think KPJ may have a higher ceiling, as he has a much better ISO game - and Jalen's relies on going right with speed, both are about the same shooting - but that will get better for both of them over time. They are SIMILAR players with different bags, and we are lucky to have them both, and I HOPE we can find a way that we play them both as that would be a major advantage. I never said that people weren't fans, just questioned how you can actively root against a player on the team - and that must be hard to watch the games when you are hyper focused on looking for mistakes of a 22 year old. If I agreed Green had more upside - which I don't - the only point was that if the ORG thinks they are similar (I don't know that) then if this experiment doesn't work out - we might need to trade one of them, and CLEARLY due to Porter's mental issues in the past, you would get more for Green and it might be wise to see what you could get for him. I am not in favor of trading either, it was meant as a discussion about how to handle a crowded roster.....as Rox fans. What? I don't want to trade him at all, I did in the summer when his father demanded it, as I love Eason, but now it seems he is happy I am 100% on board with signing an extention and starting him. I don't want to trade a guy for a pick that would probably be worse, - i want to keep those that are trending in the right direction - KMJ is a keeper and a starting SF to me. I do, because I see he has some rare gifts as a player, not everyone can get by folks finish with both hands and pass it adequately - it makes our team better to have a player like that. Also, after Eddie Griffin and the Rockets not having a plan, I really want to see a guy that has gone through a tough time turn his life around....and it adds to my fandom for sure. I do, they guaranteed 16m for next year. I think the team is hedging but believe in him enough to give him another year - and I also believe that EACH year depending upon WHOM is on the team they will re-evaluate everyone, and their role, so right now, I see KPJ starting next year too - as we aren't going to be competing for at least 3 more years........but that could change if we drafted Scoot Henderson for instance.....I freely admit that You know what I welcome that, most people go by the bullshit narrative on here based upon things like VSpan whom all I ever said was I want to see how he does because Rafer sucks - I have plenty of hits in Yao, Scola, Eason, tons....and I am sure there are misses too......I like the underdog players.....like DMo etc.....but most of them are quality players despite the narrative that some on here feel I have. A flaw for sure - getting into arguments on the web, but I do this at work and get bored and come on here, and when I feel someone is bullied it bugs me....oh well, folks can ignore if they like....I am not doing it to be an ass - or notoriety, I just love talking Rox. Everyone does that - boy you sure spend a lot of time thinking about me...lol I think you will find that I rarely do that first, and usually as a reaction to someone being rude.....and I do change my mind frequently, see KMJ above. Not worked up at all Studogg, I think you make some excellent points, but I figured it would be best to try to explain my thoughts above and respect the time and work you put into yours. And please notice you called me a troll, not me calling you one. I do appreciate your effort and we all can use some self reflection - thanks. Go Rockets ! DD
I don't think KJ is a special talent or anything worth extending, but at the same time I'm not overly interested in late first round picks. We've already had seven first round picks in the last two drafts, plus will add two more in the 2023 draft. KJ had the benefit of getting some development time during the start of the rebuilding process. Future draft picks will be competing heavily for opportunities. Just look at how there is no time for Tyty Washington currently, for instance. If we do trade KJ, hopefully we have a plan to package some of these picks to potentially move up in the draft.
Well that is great, but it can cause problems on the roster too as you can't play 13 developing players.....at some point Stone is going to have to make some hard choices - and that is where the real work of a GM is....drafting is fairly easy, choosing the RIGHT players to keep, less so. I would like to keep KJM and Eason as a 1/2 punch at SF..... DD
[QUOTE="DaDakota, post: 14399412, member: 331" I would like to keep KJM and Eason as a 1/2 punch at SF..... DD[/QUOTE] I would be fine with that but I can’t see us trading Tate after he took a hometown discount to extend. Just don’t see it with Stone taking the pro-players approach to GMing. I am not good keeping KJ as part of a trio of 3’s who will all get playing time. That doesnt make much sense to me. It’s certainly not great for maximizing his or Eason’s development. I think it comes down to who we are gonna commit to develop. Developing two players at the same position is hard. you see that we are playing KPJ out of position because it’s not gonna work developing him and Green as shooting guards at the same time.
I agree that Stone is going to have some important moves coming up, but he's already proved to be exceptional at drafting (which isn't so easy for many) & hit a home run with the Harden trade. Rebuilding is a much easier task than Daryl was charged with, but Stone seems perfectly suited for the job. It's very important to have guys that can play...we need continuity & chemistry. I want to move KMJ for two late firsts (we got him with a mid 2nd rounder?) and use those with other assets in a deal for a young vet that can REALLY play.
People won't love this, but the Rockets are in asset collection mode. Every move we make is too ensure we are in the best position possible 3-4 years from now. Unlike our other youngsters (as far as I know), we do not have RFA rights for KMJ, and he can walk out the door in the offseason after next, and there is nothing the Rockets can do about it. At our state of rebuild, we can't afford to lose assets for nothing. I like KMJ quite a bit, and would love to keep him long term, but if he isn't willing to accept a reasonable extension soon, I am looking to trade him. We have to preserve the asset.
Exhibit A-Z 100% and to me that would only if we can draft Scoot or Wemby, since the others are all wings and with Tari here, he would need to go anyway. I could see us keeping Tate around, since he's a veteran and already signed for cheap. Martin is looking for time and money and in case we draft Scoot or Wemby, you can bet your ass we are looking at a guy like Middleton to join us right away.
Tate just doesn’t fit. I still think his injury is suspicious. Tate+Gordon+Christopher+KPJ+Bucks Pick+2024 Nets pick (Top 3 protected) for VanVleet(Agrees to 3 year 88 million deal with a team option for the 4th year) and OJ Anuoby. Sengun/Bruno Smith/Uzi/Eason Anuoby/KMJ Green/KPJ FVV/Ty
He is a classic example of looking good on a bad team. Shows just enough promise to have good trade value but at best is a role player long term. Trade him now while hes at peak value. I would pair him with gordon to get the single best asset i can.
Let me get this straight DaDakota wants to trade Jalen Green?! Been a while since I read CFs. Some things never change.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/te...le/Houston-Rockets-trade-options-17651050.php They are even more hesitant to move forward K.J. Martin, another name in frequent trade speculation. Martin is on a team-friendly contract, worth just $1.9 million at a team option next season. The Rockets could decline that option and extend him, the sort of extension that general manager Rafael Stone has favored in the past two seasons. After investing two seasons in Martin, the Rockets are now reaping benefits, more regularly winning his playing time, and believe that at 21 he still has room to grow. Amid reports of a three-team deal with the Suns and Bucks, that kind of trade never gained traction past the proposal stage or a second phone call. The Rockets are also likely to be patient because of their circumstance as a rebuilding team in the final season with control of their own pick before the Thunder have their picks or the option to swap positions in the draft. If they were further into the rebuild, they could seek the sort of veteran who could fill a void. At their stage, they are trying to develop players, rather than put a veteran on top of prospects in their rotation, the thinking behind their last significant trade, which sent Christian Wood to Dallas.
Tari Eason should start. Martin is the worst of the 4. Bolded stats indicate the best numbers of the group: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/easonta01.html Tari Eason 2023 (25 games, 471 minutes played): 8.8 points / 5.4 rebounds / .9 assists .438% FG / .380% 3p / .842% FT .525% TS / 20.0% usage / .7 BPM / .3 VORP / 17.9 PER https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/martike04.html Kenyon Martin Jr. 2023 (25 games, 608 minutes played): 10.7 points / 5.1 rebounds / 1.4 assists .540% FG / .314% 3p / .661% FT .617 TS / 16.7% usage / -.6 BPM / .2 VORP / 15.0 PER https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoer01.html Eric Gordon 2023 (21 games, 633 minutes played) 12.4 points / 2 rebounds / 2.6 assists .442% FG / .354% 3p / .863% FT .587% TS / 17.0% usage / -2.0 BPM / 0.0 VORP / 11.3 PER https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tateja01.html Jae'sean Tate (career numbers used due to injury absence in 2023) 11.5 points / 5.3 rebounds / 2.7 assists .501% FG / .311% 3p / .701% FT .571 TS / 18.0% usage / -1.6 BPM / .4 VORP* / 14.0 PER
