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Jordan: 'I could have scored 100 points' in today's NBA

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by ktbballplaya, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Why do people say stuff like this?

    Is him talking about this really keeping him from managing his team?
     
  2. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    He couldn't average 40 when the average team score 110, and now he could score 40 when the average team scores 100?

    The much slower pace today alone would kill his chance to reach 40ppg, and that's not under his control.

     
  3. daDreamShake

    daDreamShake Member

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    I think the players would get used to the way the game was called.

    So if you put Kobe in 87 he'd probably adjust to the foul calls etc and if you put MJ in the league now I'm sure he'd adjust as well but I doubt he'd score 100 tho

    Anyways, it's all hypothetical so it doesn't matter, no ones right :p
     
  4. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    some of y'all are being fairly ridiculous. so ridiculous i'm going to have to agree with goodbug even though everything he's posting is just to defend kobe's honor.

    first there's the typical "every defense was insanely physical, no one could score on those amazing defenses and individual defenders with flagrant fouls handed out like so much candy, but oh yeah, everyone in the 80's was also phenomenally skilled, no one could stop those amazingly talented offensive players, and uhh, everyone had infinite energy and was awesome on both ends unlike today's lazy players." get this, players back then were kind of like today's players - they had strengths AND weaknesses. it's kind of hard to argue defenses were so physical and tough and scoring was really hard and then look and see that offensive efficiencies were pretty much at all time high's (scoring was higher in the 60's and 70's even though efficiency was pretty bad).



    then there's the jordan could do anything mystique combined with completely ignoring that the difference in stats, even between very different situations and players, is usually very small in sports and huge changes in scoring, assists, rebounds, etc are not very easy to accomplish (kind of the same logic that thinks yao could average a couple more assists per game if the rockets were better shooters even though the difference in our shooting and even the best team in the league is only a couple of percentage points).

    jordan played in a faster paced, higher scoring era and had free reign to shoot for a decent chunk of his early career and he never cracked 69 points (and that was in OT). now we're to believe he would "easily" be able to increase his career high by 45% and get a 100 point game? considering we've got 1000+ games of data where the outlier was 69, that's an enormous jump.

    in the 60+ year history of the nba, only one time has someone scored 100 points. that was wilt chamberlain, who had seasons where he averaged 50.4 and 44.8 points per game. and he never even broke 80 points in another game, so even with a ton of high scoring games, it wasn't like he was routinely challenging 100 and just finally got it. it took the highest scoring regulation game ever along with his teammates force feeding him the ball like drob in his 71 point game, and he just got to 100. considering jordan would not come close to 44.8 ppg, much less 50.4, it would have to be one really standout game to get to 100. it took a big time standout game for kobe (2nd best is 65) just to get to 81.

    is it impossibly jordan could get 100? no, i'm sure if he just really wanted to shoot enough to get 100, eventually it would happen. but for it to just organically happen like kobe's 81 or jordan's 69 point game, do the odds say he would get a 100 point game in a slower-paced, lower-scoring era and break his career high by 45% just because perimeter players get an extra touch foul here and there? no.



    and finally, enough with the whining about free throws in today's game and how much they help scoring. first of all, it's just not true that there are way more free throws with the new handchecking rules. outside of one weird drop in 1991-92, for the vast majority of jordan's career, the FTA/FGA ratio pretty much varied between .32 and .34. then in the '99-'00 season it dropped to .30 and stayed there (hitting .293 in '01-'02) until the new handcheck rules came into play. then it spiked back into the historic range of .33 for a few seasons and has been back at .30 for the last 3 years***. now i'm sure perimeter players are getting a slightly bigger percentage of the league wide free throws than they used to, but considering the overall number is down 10%, perimeter players probably aren't getting any more free throws than they ever have. jordan once took 12 free throws per game in a season and 10 fta/gm in a few others and then had a bunch around 8. it doesn't sound like he was too harshly punished. his 12 ft year came when he took 28 shots per game, kobe only took 10.2 ft/gm the year he took 27 shots per game. and all of that ignores that extra free throws aren't worth insane extra points. people talk like a couple of extra free throws is going to get you 6 or 8 points per game. a touch foul that gets you 2 80% free throws (1.6 points) might just take away a field goal attempt around 45% (.9 points). so you may not even get a point for each additional 2 free throws you take.



    ***in case someone says, free throws are down because 3 point attempts are up, that's not true either. 3 pointers as a percentage of overall field goal attempts have been on a constant rise from the early 80's to the late 2000's (leveled off the last 3 years). the ratio is almost 9 times higher now than it used to be and yet FTA/FGA hasn't changed all that much over that time. in fact, when they shortened the 3 point line in the mid-90's and 3 point attempts soared, free throw attempts actually went up for the first 2 years and were at the usual .33 ratio. 3PA/FGA are back up to the mid-90's level and yet FTA/FGA are 10% lower.
     
    #164 francis 4 prez, Oct 15, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  5. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    Tim Grover, who trained Mike, Kobe and Lebron tends to believe the difference between Michael and the other 2 was enough that Mike could average 40-50ppg in the current league.

    A lot of that would be free throws, both 'and 1s' and 2 shots that simply weren't called in his day.
     
  6. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Again.

    Those who doubt that prime Michael Jordan could not easily put 40-45 up nightly against today's NBA, are most likely whippersnappers that did not live through the Jordan years.

    Late 80's and early 90's basketball was a much more physical, post oriented style of play. The guard output compared to today's NBA just was not the same. Total points by an entire team means nothing when the majority of those points were coming from the low block.

    John Stockton would leave bruises on opposing guards. Ribcages were completely bruised and beaten because of the handchecking that was allowed at the time. Joe Dumars could grab a fist full of jersey and steer offensive players everywhere they didn't want to go.

    This ability to "steer" the offensive player with an open hand is a freaking huge advantage, as anyone that has played ball can attest to.
     
    #166 RudyTBag, Oct 15, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  7. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Tim Grover also claimed T-mac would be at full strength this year. I know not the same situation but still.

    I'm 22 so I can't answer but I will say this. Nobody truly knows what Jordan would do if he played in the NBA today. No doubt he would be great but to answer if he could score 100 in a game is well nobody knows and we never will know. People can post all the stats that they want but in the end they don't say for sure if he can drop 100 in a game today.
     
  8. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Not trying to joke but I thought you were around my age,22??

    Because I thought you played college b-ball. Unless you just watch a lot of old film a lot.
     
  9. spysta

    spysta Member

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    Geez Jordan sounds insecure lately, why does he feel the need to discredit all the active players in the NBA?
     
  10. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    that's great that tim grover thinks that, but that doesn't make it right.

    except plenty of fouls were called in jordan's days. sometimes they show these games on espn classic. people should watch them again. there aren't that many flagrant type fouls. people get fouled from people just contesting shots all the time. it all looks fairly similar to today's game, except there were more short shorts and white guys. it wasn't trench warfare out there, it couldn't have been or the number of free throws per shot attempt wouldn't be higher than it is now.

    jordan's career high was 37.1. he did that in what was the highest Usage Rate season of all time to that point (38.3) with a respectable 56.2 TS%. kobe's career high is 35.6. he did that in what is now the highest Usage Rate season of all time (38.7) with a respectable 55.9 TS%. amazingly similar. for all of the ways kobe falls short of jordan, he is still a pretty amazing and prolific scorer. saying jordan would easily score 40 when kobe had to go crazy just to get 35.6 is crazy. the difference in their scoring was really just the difference in pace, jordan played on a bulls team with a 95.8 pace factor while the lakers were only at 90.9 (as an example of how much slower the game is, the bulls 95.8 was dead last in the league, the lakers 90.9 was 15th out of 30).

    even if you let jordan have his highest efficiency ever (61.4 TS%) and scaled his points up, that would only bring him up to 40.8 ppg and it's probably not likely to be at your most efficient in your highest usage season. and if he played on a league average 92.6 pace factor team with kobe's record breaking 38.7 usage rate, that brings his average back down to 39.6 ppg. so even with a record breaking usage rate and his best efficiency ever, we're not even quite at 40 ppg. thinking he could do it easily is crazy.
     
  11. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

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    Interesting read by John Hollinger about this whole MJ thing.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/20458/taking-air-out-of-mjs-100-point-claim

     
  12. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Oh my god, this isn't about who's "better" it's realizing the different types of players today and how that would affect Jordan's style of play. Jordan's strengths were quickness into the lane and strength to finish once he was in the air. Against 80's centers without zone play, the typical center was not quick enough to close the lane on Jordan from the weak side. So what you frequently had was Jordan beating his man and then getting to the rim before the last defender could react quickly enough to stop his path. Then Jordan would finish and draw fouls because he was extremely strong in the air. In today's game, with zone play and smaller QUICKER centers, they will be able to close the driving lane more quickly and contest Jordan's drives before he gets into the air. This is one of the reasons why a team like the Pistons with quicker long armed post defenders (Rodman, Laimbeer) were able to handle Jordan better than teams with slower footed 7 foot centers. This is also one of the reasons why the Rockets handled the Bulls, even without the zone rules Hakeem (arguably the quickest center of all-time) was quick enough to close down the lane from the weak side when Jordan began his drive to the lane. This doesn't mean that today's centers are better, it simply means they provide a different match up that better neutralizes Jordan's offensive game.
     
  13. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

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    It's pretty simple if you ask me.

    Kobe scored 82 points with handchecking rule.

    What makes you think that a better talent like Jordan couldn't score 18 more points against a lesser team?

    He might not score 100 against the Celtics or Lakers but against a bottom feeder team like the Wolves, Clippers or Warriors, sure he could.
     
  14. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    In 1987, the bottom feeder Nuggets gave up 117.x per game. Today's bottom feeder, Warriors, 112.x. When Kobe scored 81 against Raptors, 104 for Raptors.

    Raptors would be the 3rd best defensive team in 1987, better than "bad boy" pistons, who gave up more points that year.

    What lesser teams are you talking about? He had many lesser teams to play against in the 80s and he couldn't get there.


     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I haven't read a lot of the thread, but figured I'd put in my two cents. Sure, Jordan could score a hundred with today's rules. And I agree with the comment I read somewhere here that it would be interesting to see how Hakeem would have adapted with today's rules, as well. My prediction with the Dream is that he would have laid waste to the NBA. He never stopped improving his game and was (and is) one the the most intelligent players to ever grace the hardwood. Dream would be killing teams, as would Jordan.
     
  16. TheMacster

    TheMacster Member

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    Sounds like Jordan may be a tad-bit concerned that Kobe is looming over the 6-7 ring count, if him and LA continues their championship fortune.
    Jordan probably never thought a guy would come in and within 10-12 years of his retirement win 6 rings as the best player in the NBA.
     
  17. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Kobe hasn't even won 5 rings as the best player on his own team...
     
  18. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Do you also believe that if prime Chamberlain played in the mid-90's, he would've averaged 50 ppg?
     
  19. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    Of course not, and by the same logic of some IDs using here. Because he's greater than today's center, he wouldn't average 60.

     
  20. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    kobe can win 10 rings and he still wouldn't challenge jordan.

    jordan has him beat in individual stats by 10 miles.
     

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