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[John McWhorter] Is it racist to expect black kids to do math for real?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Huh?
     
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I didn't stutter.

    It's a lie.
     
  3. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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    I believe this is what the poster might have been referring to?

    "Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says":
    https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-community-colleges-algebra-20170717-story.html

    "Cal State drops intermediate algebra as requirement to take some college-level math courses":
    https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state...-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595
     
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Damn... Algebra is an ultra low bar.
     
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  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Does any of that say that California banned lower level math?

    That is from 2017 can you show where they actually implemented those things?

    I will hang up and listen.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I think the education system is racist by expecting less from black and latino children. These woke folks are saying the solution is the water down the curriculum more for poor performing student which seems to me to be the problem. People expect less from black kids, and that's racist.

    Instead, we need to challenge and expect more of these kids early on. Need to examine how their education is different from kindergarten up. I did Americorp and there were black kids who were great and some who thought 1/2 + 1/2 = 1/4 - mind you that was a high school senior. The system failed these kids, and while race is playing a role in their failure, the solution isn't that math is inherently racist, it's that the system is racist in not working to push these kids to achieve.
     
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  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Why don't we actually put names to these people that are advocating this type of stuff and judge then on their merits instead of just saying "woke" folks.

    Is their an actual significant number of people advocating for this or is this just something from the fringe?
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I am referring to the people quoted in this thread. I don't know how many of them they are.
     
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  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    We probably should be teaching math differently. But that doesn't mean converting math into a social studies topic.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...reakonomics-pisa-algebra-geometry/4835742002/

     
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  11. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Noted.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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    history of the term "woke"

    "A history of “wokeness”:

    https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy

    excerpt:

    Before 2014, the call to “stay woke” was, for many people, unheard of. The idea behind it was common within Black communities at that point — the notion that staying “woke” and alert to the deceptions of other people was a basic survival tactic. But in 2014, following the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, “stay woke” suddenly became the cautionary watchword of Black Lives Matter activists on the streets, used in a chilling and specific context: keeping watch for police brutality and unjust police tactics.

    In the six years since Brown’s death, “woke” has evolved into a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory. This framing of “woke” is bipartisan: It’s used as a shorthand for political progressiveness by the left, and as a denigration of leftist culture by the right.

    On the left, to be “woke” means to identify as a staunch social justice advocate who’s abreast of contemporary political concerns — or to be perceived that way, whether or not you ever claimed to be “woke” yourself. At times, the defensiveness surrounding wokeness invites ironic blowback. Consider the 2020 Hulu comedy series Woke, which attempted to deconstruct the identity politics behind ideas like “wokeness,” only to garner criticism for having an outdated and too-centrist political viewpoint — that is, for not being woke enough.

    On the right, “woke” — like its cousin “canceled” — bespeaks “political correctness” gone awry, and the term itself is usually used sarcastically. At the Republican National Convention in August, right-wing Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) scolded “woketopians,” grouping them together with socialists and Biden supporters, as though the definition of a “woketopian” was self-evident.

    But as use of the word spreads, what people actually mean by “woke” seems less clear than ever.
    more at the link
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The problem with a lot of the racism in education is hard to pinpoint, detect, and weed out.

    Here's a 'hypothetical'. A young white girl asks why the class has to do a particular assignment. The Caucasian teacher explains because it addresses the standard, addresses skills that also be used in the future.

    The white teacher thinks in the back of her mind that this child has confidence, curiosity about education, and the makings of a potential leader. She'll remember to nominate her for leadership awards and help the child make choices to build a good resume to show off her initiative and potential.

    A black student asks the causcasion teacher why the class has to do an assignment. The teacher gives the same response to the black student. It appears there was no racism involved.

    But in the back of the white teacher's mind she thinks the black student was disrespectful, defiant, and looking for a way to get out of doing assigned work that all of the other kids have to do. She remembers to keep an eye on that kid, he might be real trouble. The well-intentioned teacher believes it's really sad because the student probably comes from a bad home and just doesn't have the tools needed. They probably witness people who don't value education and set bad examples. She wishes something could be done. Hopefully one day the racism and tough conditions will improve. Maybe the young curious education-minded leader student will be such a prodigy she'll help make progress.

    The black student isn't guided toward a leadership path and is may have other 'defiant' incidents on his record.

    These kinds of things happen all the time. Recognizing and addressing these types of issues is a good place to start.
     
    #53 FranchiseBlade, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  14. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Where are the parents in all of this ?
    If their parents don’t encourage them to do well in school then they are less likely to do well
     
  15. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Congrats to him !
    He beat out everyone at Princeton

    @Sweet Lou 4 2
    He beat the system ?
    No. He just got better grades than everybody
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Exactly.

    Very well summed up.
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Parents often don't come from educated backgrounds themselves and aren't able to help their kids - also these parents often work long hours to survive. These kids are in a substandard system that doesn't have a goal to produce doctors or engineers but rather serve as glorified baby sitting. I've seen it first hand. It's a broken system.
     
  18. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Kids don’t really pick their majors or careers til college.
    There are kids who have made it out of the low income areas and succeeded academically

    kids who succeed should not be shamed and standards be lower
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    well the solution is that kids need more support at younger ages. that's the bottom line
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I just took a look at Diablo Valley Community College in the East Bay Summer Curriculum and they are offering a lot of math classes. Some of the classes included are Beginning and Intermediate Algebra and Elementary Statistics.

    There's also a course called "Math for Liberal Arts"
     
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