Biggio should be. Currently Top 40 in hits Top 10 in doubles Top 25 in runs If you look at the company he is keeping in those three categories, they mostly all HOF. If Biggio quit today, he should be first ballot HOF. But will the national media vote him first ballot HOF? Not sure.
yeah...i'm 31...will be 32 next week. i have two kids. the oldest is almost done with his first year of kindergarten. i remember watching biggio play when i was in junior high.
Yeah, I remember buying baseball cards from a card shop when I was in junior high and the girl working the counter wouldn't stop talking about how much she loved Craig Biggio...not because he was a great player, but because he is so good looking and had a nice butt (I will not attempt to speculate on the current status of said butt). He and Bagwell ARE the Astros and have been for so long now it is hard to imagine the team without them. But I guess we are getting a taste of it this year with Bags gone.
Unquestionably, both Biggio & Bagwell deserve to be 1st ballot guys. It would be so sweet if they could go into the Hall together, though that would take Bagwell getting left out for a year.
Wouldn't quite go that far, I think everybody forgets just how ridiculously good Biggio was in the late 90's. Wouldn't say he's "great" defensively either. He was an average to below catcher, was an above average 2B until he blew his knee out, and was well below average as an OF. Craig Biggio, Robbie Alomar, Jeff Kent (in that order) were the best 2B of their generation. None were perfect - defense, longevity, defense were their respective drawbacks - but all 3 should end up in Cooperstown.
I think you misread. He was beyond good. Best range you'll see at 2B. He was better all-around than Biggio in their prime, but his career fizzled out at age 34, really the only knock against his game.
Why not, specifically? If Alomar had better range, then Alomar may have been greater, but I don't think Bidge won those GGs on reputation alone. That guy was amazing.
He's gotta be. He's an absolute stud. I think the fact that he's been an astro his whole career will help him get in also. Bagwell will eventually get in I think. Who was the guy that convinced the NFL HOF to get Moon in??? He should do something similar for bagwell. I don't think many of us expected Moon to get in first ballot. Like others I've been watching Bidge and Bagwell forever. I was was like 8 when I caught my first astros game now I'm 22. It's pretty amazing that Bidge is still going strong. I wonder what job Bidge will have win he retires? Theres no doubt he's going to be an astro for life IMO. I always thought he would be the manager but theres no no way we can get rid of Gardner.
He was good, very good even, but "greatness" in my mind is a more exclusive appellation. Bigg had very good range to his left, average-to-good range up the middle, had occasional trouble going back on popups, and had a pretty weak arm. I'm not trying to denigrate Biggio at all, just never thought of him as "great" or "amazing" on defense. Alomar was head & shoulders a better 2B. Pokey Reese was as well. I put little to no stock in Gold Gloves. Reputation, publicity & offensive numbers play a huge role. They gave one to Raffy Palmeiro in a year when he started 135 games...as the DH. Grace (a great defensive 1B) won 2 before Bags got his, and 3 after - only exception was during Bags's historical offensive year of '94. Why was that? Edmonds hasn't been a GG CFer in the past 2 years, but he gets penciled in. Jeter winning the last 2 years is a complete joke. Abreu's last year was on reputation alone. I could go on....
Understood--especially on the arm. His head was so good, it made up for some of the things that were only above average IMO. I'll just have to take your word for it; I never got to see much of these guys. You're right that many GG awards are a joke, but I always assumed you had to do *something* with the glove to get there at all, even if it was five or six years ago. And yeah, the Palmeiro thing was disgusting.
I can't even imagine how there'd be room for debate. He's the best 2nd baseman of his generation, arguably the best overall player in Astros history, talented enough to play all over the field, and well-known for his effort, character, leadership, and durability. He's even got several charming quirks for the HOF voters to latch on to - the filthy helmet, the lead-off HRs, the HBP record, etc. True, he hasn't won a world series (yet), but the Astros have been one of the most successful franchises in baseball during his tenure. 3000 hits would only be the icing on the cake. Watching ESPN, you might feel like nobody cares about any player who (A) doesn't have a HR record, (B) doesn't have a strikeout record, or (C) doesn't play in NYC or Boston. But HOF voters are all career baseball writers who know what Biggio is all about.
To quote Clint Eastwood, "deserve's got nothin' to do with it". Bagwell will not be a 1st ballot guy. Considering the steroid era he played in, his numbers don't blow you away. Biggio was the best 2nd baseman of his generation. Can the same be said for Bagwell at 1st? Biggio's longevity (and the 3000 hits that come with it) seal his entry, but people's last memories of Bagwell will be his shoulder falling off.
Best 1B in the history of the National League. Not too shabby. In your above post you said "HOF voters are all career baseball writers who know what Biggio is all about". Same goes for Bagwell.
From ESPN's Rob Neyer: "I'm 95 percent sure that Bagwell belongs in the Hall of Fame, and I'm 75 percent sure he'll be elected to the Hall of Fame within the first few years of his eligibility. But it's by no means a sure thing, even if it should be." Those are my feelings exactly. I have faith that Bags will get in, but I wouldn't say that he's a 1st ballot lock by any means.
Time changes lots of perceptions. I have no idea how the BBWAA will view Bagwell in 2012. Cy Young wasn't a first-ballot HOFer either. Never said he was a lock, said he deserves it.
