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Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by larsv8, Jun 20, 2011.

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Aruba77 Member

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valorita said: ↑

Turner needs to be in the right situation to progress. In Philly, he was behind Holiday and Iggy as primary ball handlers. He is the quintessential point forward.
In college, his calling card was:
-great rebounding wing
-pretty good creator/facilitator
-above average defender
-nice kid/high character

Martin's value is >> Turner's. Philly wants Kevin bad because he is the perfect complement to Iggy and I believe they are in a win-now mode.
The problem is that this kind of trade puts us in a limbo. We are still too good of a team to truly benefit from going young here and as a result getting a high lottery pick.
Click to expand...

That's why we have to blow up the team. BTW: Hawes and Turner would get me interested.

#161 Aruba77, Mar 7, 2012

CCorn Member

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I could see why the 76ers want to do this. How many times have the cracked 100 points this season?

#162 CCorn, Mar 7, 2012
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edit - I had reeled off a long one about Turner and his issue, but I see Clutch beat me too it.

As you were ......

#163 Plowman, Mar 7, 2012
Rudyc281 Member

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Turner is nice but I would just want more back though

#164 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012
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I would prefer a Gordon trade before a turner trade

#165 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012
Rudyc281 Member

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And I'm talking about Eric Gordon and kaman deal somehow

#166 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012
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Wow Gordon what has he done lately? I would rather have Turner he is young and Maybe he turns it around, but I am tired of us trading for Projects that coulda would or shoulda been a Franchise player

#167 wadero, Mar 7, 2012

Rudyc281 Member

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Yea true and it's da same thing with Gordon maybe ge stays healthy a full season

#168 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012
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wadero said: ↑

Wow Gordon what has he done lately? I would rather have Turner he is young and Maybe he turns it around, but I am tired of us trading for Projects that coulda would or shoulda been a Franchise player
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Rox're not getting Gordon the not-so-walking wounded. Detroit's Gordon? Just send a plane ticket.

Are you ready to max-out Gordon? He may prove worth it, I'd prefer someone worthy already received it. He'll remain in NOLA...

#169 xiki, Mar 7, 2012
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Turner under the gun for Sixers

IT CERTAINLY seemed like a sink or swim night for 76ers second-year forward Evan Turner on Monday, when coach Doug Collins threw him into the starting lineup and piled more playing time on him (32 minutes, 11 seconds) than he has gotten since Jan. 11.

Turner started in place of Jodie Meeks, who entered Monday's game against the Milwaukee Bucks mired in a 8-for-32 shooting slump from three-point range. Not a good sign when all you're really asked to do is drain the long jumper on a somewhat consistent basis. But Collins had stuck with Meeks before Monday, giving him the majority of minutes for the most part at the "two" guard. And though his three-point shot was missing, Meeks was finding other ways to score, having hit double figures in three of the five games before Monday.

Meanwhile, Turner's minutes have been dropping, with none coming at the end of close games. Collins said Turner's minutes were being soaked up by Andre Iguodala, who was needed on the court for his defense. Lou Williams also has been carrying serious minutes to try to help alleviate the team's offensive struggles. And all the time, Turner has mostly watched. For the year, he is averaging a little less than 24 minutes a game. So why was he out there for so many minutes in Monday's 97-93 loss? Was Collins looking for a spark on a team that has been pretty much without one for 3 weeks? Or is it something else?

Since its 20-9 start, Collins' team has lost eight of 10. If that isn't bad enough, most of those losses have been heartbreakers - games in which fourth-quarter leads vanished as quickly as the Sixers' offense. Monday was no different, as the Sixers shot a paltry 13-for-49 (26.5 percent) from the floor in the second half. So looking for a solution, of any kind, is paramount on Collins' list. So does that mean Turner?

At the beginning of the season, when Turner's confidence was through the roof, his play reflected that. He showed glimpses of being the one who won player-of-the-year honors after his junior season at Ohio State. He took the ball to the basket with authority. The midrange jumper - Turner's bread and butter in college - was consistent, and his longer outside shooting improved.

Then something happened. He and Collins had an encounter at the end of the Orlando Magic game on Jan. 30. The Sixers had controlled most of the game and seemed poised to register a blowout win, then they allowed the Magic to score 18 points in the final 2:40, making the win unnecessarily close. Television cameras caught Collins after the game chiding Turner, who proceeded to throw a towel in obvious disgust. Both played it off the next day as nothing more than "heat of the battle" intensity, but maybe that was a turning point.

In the six games leading up to that game, Turner averaged close to 26 minutes a game. Since that game, he has played 26 or more minutes only twice - 2 nights later in Chicago and Monday's game in Milwaukee.

During his extended time on the court Monday, Turner, who appears a little heavier than he was earlier in the season, seemed very rusty. His ballhandling wasn't there - he fumbled with the ball numerous times - and his feet seemed ahead of his body much of the night.

After the game, sporting a small cut and bump over his right eye, Turner said the night was "kind of a blur." He said he felt fine, though he obviously labored much of the night.

Could it be that Collins was giving last season's second overall pick a wake-up call? Surely the coach couldn't have liked the 1-for-12 shooting performance, but did it maybe teach Turner some sort of lesson that staying in shape and keeping focused during this sprint of a season is not only expected, but necessary?

Whether this team can survive in the future with both Iguodala and Turner remains to be seen, but it won't be known unless they are on the court together for an extended time. Maybe that's what Collins was taking a look at. Or maybe the coach does see Turner as being the boost needed from the outset of games.

Or maybe the second-year pro needed to see where his game is right now and to realize he has much work to do. If that's the case, Monday certainly had to be an eye-opener.
Click to expand...

Time for Sixers to trade Evan Turner and move on

I can't say it's what I would have decided, but I understand the logic behind the choice the Sixers appear to have made.

It will be Andre Iguodala over Evan Turner.

Since a choice eventually must be made, I think the Sixers will stick with the known qualities of Iguodala rather than roll the dice on the potential upside of Turner.

The signs are there.

If Turner isn't exactly in Doug Collins' doghouse, it doesn't take much to see that the coach isn't enamored with the No. 2 overall pick of the 2010 draft.

Most damning are his minutes played.

Jodie Meeks, who would be a seventh or eighth man on virtually every other team, plays 26.3 minutes a game while Turner averages 23.7.

It's not because Meeks has started all 36 games, because Collins has always said the five guys who start might not necessarily be the five best players.

But considering how Meeks, who provides little if he's not hitting three-pointers, has struggled with his shooting consistency this season, the disparity in minutes says more about what Turner has not done than what Meeks has.

Meeks has run an average of 33.3 minutes the last three games, while Turner got fewer than 20.

The high draft pick touted as the shooting guard of the future can't beat out a minimum-wage guy, who ranks near the bottom in scoring for starting "two" guards.

On Thursday in an interview on 97.5 The Fanatic, Sixers president Rod Thorn was asked bluntly by host Mike Missanelli why Turner can't get more minutes.

Thorn acknowledged that Turner likely wants more minutes, but added, "The Catch-22 is that you have to play at a level that the coach feels would make you deserving of those extra minutes.

"Right now, [Turner] is behind Iguodala, who plays the position that [Turner] is probably more suited for at this point and time anyway. [Turner] does play in the backcourt as a 'two' guard. A lot of his minutes have come there.

"We're trying to win every game we can, and we have to go with the players who are producing that particularly night."

There has been a lot of talk about giving Turner minutes at point guard, where a lot of people have said he'd be more affective, and moving Jrue Holiday to the "two."

Thorn basically shot that down, saying Turner would have a hard time against many of the quick, athletic point guards in the league.

He also indicated the Sixers are committed to Holiday, who is only 21, at that position.

From the moment the Sixers selected Turner, many said they had picked younger version of Iguodala. Originally, I thought Turner was acquired with the intention of trading Iguodala and building this club around a young backcourt combination of him and Holiday.

The problem was that, although Iguodala is a forward, he needs to handle the ball to be most effective.

There were not going to be enough touches or time on the shot clock for Iguodala, Holiday and Turner to be effective when on the court together.

Turner struggled through a disappointing rookie season while trying to develop his off-the-ball skills. He's not much better without the rock this season.

It's not so much that Iguodala and Turner can't mesh together on the court; they just do the same things, which then makes the Sixers' offense less versatile.

At this point, the only way the Sixers will find out what they might have in Turner is if they trade Iguodala. At the end of last season, that seemed likely, when Iguodala skipped out of town, giving the impression he might have been looking forward to starting fresh in a new place.

If the lockout had not occurred, that might have happened. However, with basketball operations frozen, there was no time to orchestrate a good deal.

I thought that was a mistake.

On the eve of the NBA lockout's ending and the 2011-12 season starting, I wrote: "It's simple. Use the amnesty clause to remove the remaining years of Elton Brand's contract from the salary cap and then trade Andre Iguodala in whatever deal that will take the remaining years of his deal off the books."

That would have been a commitment to Turner to accelerate his development.

Now, I think the Sixers are committed to Iguodala.

As soon as it became obvious Iguodala was coming back, Collins got proactive in reassuring him that he was a vital element and that he needed him on board with the program.

Collins successfully lobbied hard for Iguodala to make his first All-Star team. He'll tell anyone who wants to listen that Iguodala should make the 2012 U.S. Olympic team.

It makes sense if you think about it.

Collins is a defensive-minded coach, and he has always said he thinks Iguodala can make the all-NBA defensive first team.

Removing Iguodala would cripple, if not destroy, the identity of a team just beginning to experience some success.

Considering Iguodala just turned 28 and has proven his durability by missing only 21 of the 610 games he could have played, it is understandable if the Sixers have decided it's best that Iguodala guide such youngsters as Holiday, forward Thaddeus Young and rookie big men Nik Vucevic and Lavoy Allen.

This is a lot like when former team president and coach Larry Brown traded Larry Hughes because the young guard could not adapt his game to co-exist with Allen Iverson, then grew frustrated with his role.

Turner has begun to exhibit that kind of frustration.

The NBA deadline is less than 2 weeks away.

The Sixers' struggles over their last 10 games indicate that they must add something if they hope to maintain their precarious lead in the Atlantic Division and hold on to a top-four seed into the Eastern Conference playoffs.

If they make a significant move, I would not be surprised to see Turner be the chip dealt out of Philadelphia.

From the moment the Sixers drafted Evan Turner, I thought they would keep him and trade Andre Iguodala.

Now, I'm convinced it will be the opposite.
Click to expand...

#170 J.R., Mar 7, 2012

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Aruba77 Member

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Rudyc281 said: ↑

And I'm talking about Eric Gordon and kaman deal somehow
Click to expand...

I'd like an Eric Gordon deal too (assuming this is not another Roy dejavu), but we don't really have anything New Orleans wants. They don't want any of our vets and would likely demand an unreasonable suite of assets, including Lowry.

#171 Aruba77, Mar 7, 2012
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How about the similarities in the proposed Gordon/Turner deals? Both, young players drafted very high(massive upside), both with question marks that could be ironed out ....and both come with expirings.

We see you working, Daryl.

#172 Plowman, Mar 7, 2012
Rudyc281 Member

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Gordon and turner would be sick

#173 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012

thekad Member

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Uh, no. Turner isn't good.

#174 thekad, Mar 7, 2012
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"I would offer Evan Turner, Nocioni's expiring, and a 1st round draft pick. That might not be enough for Houston, but perhaps Utah would take Turner, Brackins & a 2nd for Millsap, and then send Millsap, Nocioni & a #1 to Houston for Martin."

"Another possibility the team has looked at is Houston with Hill. Would be something around Brackins and Battie (he would be expected to agree to it), but Houston wants more. Not sure if Brackins call up was related to this, will ask and tell if I find out more."

#175 valorita, Mar 7, 2012
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Millsap, Nocioni, 1 for Martin? Get'r done!

#176 J.R., Mar 7, 2012
Rudyc281 Member

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Pass on millsap sorry

#177 Rudyc281, Mar 7, 2012
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Uhhh... guys Turner would basically be taking a flyer. He's not what you would give up a Kevin Martin type for. Turner I think has a versatility factor to him which is nice, but he's been very inconsistent for a team that is very similar to the Rockets in alot of ways.

I just dont see his role expanding with this Rockets team. Parsons is a much better defensive option at the 3, and Martin/Lee/Dragic are all better options at the 2.

If they can somehow get Turner for next to nothing... I mean Thabeet/Flynn/Williams nothing... then yeah do the deal. Turner will have a decent career in the NBA, but I dont see him as a high level talent aquisition.

#178 dobro1229, Mar 7, 2012

REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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People need to be glad that Martin and his fools gold halve any value. He makes too much for what he is and cap space is worth more at this point. I just don't see Martin as the type of player that warrants keeping him on a team without a closer.

#179 REEKO_HTOWN, Mar 7, 2012
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dobro1229 said: ↑

Uhhh... guys Turner would basically be taking a flyer. He's not what you would give up a Kevin Martin type for. Turner I think has a versatility factor to him which is nice, but he's been very inconsistent for a team that is very similar to the Rockets in alot of ways.

I just dont see his role expanding with this Rockets team. Parsons is a much better defensive option at the 3, and Martin/Lee/Dragic are all better options at the 2.

If they can somehow get Turner for next to nothing... I mean Thabeet/Flynn/Williams nothing... then yeah do the deal. Turner will have a decent career in the NBA, but I dont see him as a high level talent aquisition.
Click to expand...

agree... to many health questions...

#180 kjayp, Mar 7, 2012

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