I don't like the definition of YOF, and it divides the fan group

Glad to know you consider me the peacekeeper.

Except doesn't the guy keeping the peace usually end up getting knifed?

 

you know who'd be seriously pissed about the Pecking Duck thing? Shucky Duck. Remember him - awwwww shucky duck

 

lol. you got that right. last time I tried to break up a fight, I ended up getting sucker punched.

 

i wish i'd have signed in on the boards way back in '97 or something like that ( was there a board? i didnt know, i wasnt a very computer savvy 11 year old but i went to the site regularly) so i wont look like i only started looking at the site in on 2002...i wanna look like one of those grizzled experienced posters who everyone respects

 

OK I've gotten a chance to read through this thread and man this is a whopper (or 10 piece bucket to go along with the original theme).

Being ethinically Chinese, a Native Houstonian (you should hear the crap I have to take living in Minnesota) and a Rockets fan since people were complaining about if Allen Leavell was passing the ball to Ralph Sampson enough I think I span a few boundaries here.

To YOF / YOB or any other assorted Yao / Chinese centric fans.[b/] As poor Lancet found out lighten up a little. This is a Rockets board not a Yao board. I like they guy, even admire him as a role model for my peeps, especially since I was told as a kid Chinese could never play b-ball, but the guy's yet to prove he's Wilt Chamberlain combined with Wong Fei Hong. Heck he's yet to prove he's Rick Smits combined with Brother Seven. He's a player in a team sport where the object is to win not build up one player. Its right and fair to point out that Sura, Francis, or Allen Leavell aren't giving him enough touches but at the same time you need to recognize that Yao isn't doing enough to establish position or generate offense by grabbing more boards or hanging onto the ball more. Further for those of us who love the Rockets as a team and would love them whether Yao played for them or not its insulting to us when you demand that Yao be traded because the team is holding him back or that he would be better off somewhere with a lot of Chinese. This is a team sport and a Rocket's forum. The NBA and certainly the Rockets are not built to please one player and one group of fans. If you listen to Yao he knows that as much as any other player in this league.

Next the racism card is very serious and not something to be thrown around lightly. America has a history of racism towards Chinese and other Asians that isn't well known by many Americans, see the "Chinaman" threads from last year, and it does occasionally rear its ugly head. That said by far most Americans aren't genuinely racist while some may be ignorant. Race is an extremely touchy issue and to bring it into a debate on any other topic is the nuclear option. You can't reasonably talk about anything else.

So if you're going to call someone a racist you better be clear about it. Don't mistake criticism of a basketball player or the behavior of a certain group of fans as racism unless you're willing to back it up.

 

Cont. form my above post.

To YOH / non-Chinese annoyed with YOF Rockets Fans.

Show some respect and patience to Chinese posters language. I know its frustrating to wade through several post full of broken grammer but you have to appreciate that they're trying to communicate in a totally foreign language. Just think Kaiser how hard it would be if you tried posting in a Mandarin forum?

I bet you wouldn't like the equivalent of jokes like "Why Sura no pass ball?" aimed at you. If you could even get that far in Mandarin.

These people are posting here because they like the exchange and discussion about the Rockets and they're doing it in another language While some of them may be overly focussed on one player that player is still a Rocket and you gotta respect that.

While I think that there are probably no racists among Clutch Fans there is plenty of room for misunderstanding. We're dealing with some very different and complex cultures where things are bound to be misinterpretted. Its tough because at times we might not necessarily see how things could be misinterpretted but they are. Unfortunately Chinese and Americans are preprogrammed with stereotypes about each other that often come out even when we think we're being friendly to each other and a lot of friction comes from when we act on those stereotypes or else we act in a way that doesn't fit those stereotypes throwing off our ingrained views. So don't presume that you can always tell whose a Chinese fan and who isn't based upon their posts and don't presume that the Chinese fans will always act the same way or that Yao's limitations are somehow due to him being Chinese.

Finally, I know its frustrating to see so much attention paid to one player but you need to appreciate how important Yao is to the Chinese. He's not just a great basketball player but is also a symbol of China's rising power and acceptance in the larger world. China in the past few years has made many moves to assert itself in several field including athletics. Having Yao be a star in the NBA is another sign that the Chinese have made it on the big stage. Given that there has been antagonism between the US and the PRC along with racism towards Chinese there are some Chinese who believe that Americans don't want to see the Chinese to succeed and read into things like Sura not passing the ball to Yao as being representative of that. So you should understand that to many Chinese Yao's success is more than just the success of one player or even one team but the success of a whole's people.

In the end this is really about having some understanding and patience on both sides. No matter what team Yao had played for there probably would be the same situation going on. It just so happens that he plays for the Rockets and hopefully from this we can all be better for it.

How's that for keeping the peace.
Now I hope I don't get knifed.

 

Nice post, Sishir Chang, although Hippieloser summed things up rather well on page one. I avoided this thread until last night because, frankly, I was past being tired of the whole acronym/abreviation/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it war around GARM, which is sapping the forum of a lot of that raucous community feeling we've had here for so long.

I don't think I've ever used the acronyms being bandied about here, and elsewhere in other threads. Quite a while back, I realized that members I had a great deal of respect for, like heypartner, Batman, thacabbage, and several others, just never used them.

As being new to posting here, some thousands of posts ago, although not new at all to ClutchFans (actually, was lurking from the .com days, which I didn't think was that long ago, but apparently is now eons), I was very hesitent to put in my 2 cents. I had been reading the board for a very long time, and wanted it to have some semblance of the posting quality that was all over the place during the pre-Yao days, so I changed my mind.

Some of the Yao fans with a Chinese background really have no conception of how disruptive drafting Yao turned out to be for Clutch, especially, and for the BBS. When I registered, we had around 3600 members. Within a short time of lucking out, and getting Yao, we had grown to over 10,000!

Today, we're over 15,000, and counting... even with the restrictions Clutch put on getting into, and using, the BBS. Restrictions he had to use to control his expenses for running this free site. If anyone thinks it costs next to nothing, and that getting the ability to handle such a huge increase in traffic didn't cost some bucks, they're due for a stay at the Betty Ford Clinic.

Look, most of us who were here already were thrilled to have the influx of international members, with their unique perspectives, of whom windandsea jumps out as an early and beloved example. But this thread's very existence, and those similar to it that have come before, point out the problems that that huge increase of international members entailed. The biggest problem, from the chairs sat in by the 3600 or so who were already here (and this is my opinion), is the obsession with moving Yao, by some, to an area that is viewed as more "friendly" to Yao and his culture... like somewhere on the West Coast, or New York City, for example, along with the equally irritating obsession with Yao's personal success at the expense of the Team, although those doing that almost never see it that way.

Yes, this has all been repeated before, but I wanted to give my own opinions about it. I also want to thank those who gave me such pleasure by posting this:



And this:



And espicially this:




Sirshir Chang, I know you referred to him as "poor Lancet," but he had been asking for it for a very long time. And before anyone starts crying about it being related to his Chinese background, if he, in fact, had one, be assured that Clutch has booted far more Texans than Chinese Yao fans. It's not even close. As a matter of fact, there are a few I wish he would let return, but I digress.



Keep GARM Readable!!

 

About the only year I recall in which the Rockets were painful to watch was the year after Moses Malone left and before Ralph Sampson (to recall a tall guy with small man's skills.. some of you newcomers need to bone up on this guys.. he's a lot like Yao in many ways) arrived.

The center was Bill Cartright, iirc, and that team *was* painful to watch.

By comparison, this team is an utter joy to watch.

David.

 

Then you will remember, for those giving Sura such a hard time for his play with the Rockets, that Robert Reid played point during our run to the '86 Finals. Bobbie Joe was getting towards the end of his career, was a small forward, and did a superb job for someone not playing their natural position. We clobbered the Showtime Lakers in 5 games, and took what may have been the best team ever, the '85-'86 Celtics, to 6 games before losing.

No one in their right mind thinks Sura is the "answer" at the point for the Rockets, but he's a hell of a lot better than what we had, and we're winning. Isn't that the idea? Winning?

Ralph was a hell of a center, playing out of position at PF after Dream came along, before he got injured.




Keep GARM Readable!!

 

Yes...I'm sorry

won't happen again

 

Couple comments:

1) Bobby Joe Reid is one of my all time favorite players in all of sports, and yes, for old time Rockets fans, that series, where they had him matched up with Magic Johnson a lot of the time, is a memory as treasured as gold.

2) That Sura can play basketball at all in the pros is something of a miracle. He's too slow and too short, and even in college you always had this sinking feeling he shot too much. Sura, coming into the pros, was scary in terms of his "bust" potential.

That as an older player he's coming into a role is heartening, because by all rights he shouldn't succeed at all, and yet, he's helping this team a lot.

Perhaps some of the newcomers don't see that. They see what all of us basketball fans saw 10 years ago, that Sura is too slow and too short and can shoot too much and has "bust" written all over him.

So, the thing is -- it's not that Sura has faults, it's that he's overcome them and managed to be a productive professional basketball player anyway.

For that I can cheer him.

David.

 

To anyone who might be able to provide some info, does the beloved Charvo also got the same fate as the unfortunate Lancet? Thanks, fa

 

Originally posted by Batman Jones: ...... Yao's gonna be here a long time -- in the NBA I mean, doesn't really matter if it's Houston or elsewhere, he's gonna have to learn the NBA game and he hasn't yet -- enjoy it. We're all trying to. We all very much hope he does it here. So do Les and Carroll and Jeff VG and T-Mac and basically all of Houston. We are rooting for him and the guys with the power are doing everything they can to help him succeed. Meantime, around here, we're doing everything we can to root for him. You guys could make it a lot easier if you'd calm the hell down.

I sincerely hope that "the guys with the power" you quoted include those Chinese officials who are abusing Yao's loyalty to the CNT. If they could just realize the importance of rest/ recuperation and NBA training camp for Yao during the summer break and don't force Yao to play non-stopping basketball all year round, I'm sure Yao would have a much higher chance of success in the NBA. Looking at his present commitment to the CNT during summer months, I am not so optimistic, though.

 

I love this thread. Clutch, make us a Thread Hall of Fame.

 

I believe Clutch has already made it a HOF Thread simply by his multiple posts in it....especially the beautiful headstone chop informing us of lancet's demise.

but his Foxworthy takeoffs are also pretty funny.

the reactions to some of the posts that took off from that also helped...hell..your posts even contribute towards a alll time funny thread.

 

I feel loved...at least until my next TMac outburst, though the way he's playing, I might have to put a sock in it for a while.

 

Deckard;

Great post too. I've liked your gems in the D & D and glad to see one here in GARM.

You know when the Rox first drafted Yao the player I immediately thought of was Ralph Sampson. They are very similar in skill sets, although Ralph had much better ball handling skills. The main difference though is temperament. Ralph wouldn't be afraid to take over a game, see game 5 of the '86 series against the Lakers when he pretty much singlehandedly saved the Rox after Hakeem (Akeem) fouled out. Ralph also had a fiery temper as Jerry Sichting found out in the '86 Finals.

I often wonder why no one tried to get Ralph to tutor Yao?

Also a dream matchup I would like to see is the '84-85 Rox (Dream's first year) vs. the '03-04 Rox. Yao / Sampson, Akeem / Cato, Lewis Lloyd / Mobley, McCray / MoT, Lucas / Francis. I would give the edge to the classic Rox but I think the new Rox would matchup well.

 

DECKARD, good job man!ROTFLMAO, I'm a lot better looking than that Chinese dude with the exclamation point!

P.S. I'm not even Chinese but damn straight, I'm a big fan of Yao!

 

I heard a rumor that Yao was dating the 7'0 Chineese player on the LA sparks...its prob false but wouldnt it be crazy to see their kids?? Im sure the Chineese government is talking about hooking them up so they can create a superbred 8'4 Chineese monster. But this time they should teach the kid COMPETITION>FRIENDSHIP.




Anybody know how to photoshop a combination of these pics to see what their kids would look like?? But forreal...yao needs a girl maybe he'll have relationship problems and get more pissed off on the court