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Elon Musk is no hero

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DaDakota, May 12, 2022.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Seems like he's got some Icarus going. Guy believes his troll army/own press too much. You do that for too long and you end up invading Ukraine.

    Part of the current problem is that he still obv. wants to buy Twitter but is now paying too much and is just going to act as erratically as possible to try to annoy everyone into giving him a lower price.
     
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  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I never said Depp/Heard is interesting or important. As always you fail to listen to the point in regard to the fact that we have civil court. It can range from silly (Heard/Depp) to potentially serious and even lead to criminal prosecution. My point was that if Musk’s accusation is serious, we have an avenue to figure it out. That’s why you don’t see me posting that he should be locked away with Gislaine Maxwell just yet.

    Onto the topics you now brought up:

    Mars is important for one reason only… creating technology to terraform that can hopefully help restore the planet we already live on. I see little value in going to Mars other than the need to develop better engineering to be used here. So I’m all for SpaceX and it’s great to learn about Mars but I’m not all about treating Musk as Jesus 2.0 because of some stupid fever dream that he’s going to fly us all to a new utopia. The planet we have here is the best spot available in the solar system. Engineering a Hex worm hole portal thing like in the Marvel movies to travel a billion light years and sure… space colonization then becomes a hell of a lot more interesting.

    On your typical whataboutism… yesterday a leading Republican candidate proposed states banning birth control and based on what Oklahoma just passed its not all that far fetched… but please feel free to make the case that the Democratic is equally extreme because the “far left” is instead running on the EXTREME ask of billionaires to pay taxes, and expanding Medicare, etc. SOOOO extreme. Call me when Democrats actually propose something actually extreme instead of acting as though your highly conservative worldview is actually moderate and anything more liberal is extremist. You are obviously no moderate so I guess paying taxes and offering health insurance options for everyone probably does sound extreme to someone as obviously right wing bias as you are.

    Oh and I absolutely believe the Tesla and Space X leadership sees Musk as a liability. Getting rid of him wouldn’t be easy or else they’d already have done it imo. He’s a marketing disaster for Tesla going forward. If they did do it of course they’d have to have a well funded PR strategy to avoid the stock tanking more but with a PR campaign and a new well spoken president and a solid mission statement and I think their stock might actually improve.
     
    #82 dobro1229, May 21, 2022
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
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  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    One revelation I’ve had is he obviously isn’t really doing anything with Tesla and SpaceX anymore. Nobody has that much time on their hands when their day job is somewhat productive. The guy has too much non liquid assets, too many enablers, too many potential legal liabilities, too much ego, and too much time. That’s always a recipe for a marriage with the most corrupt self interested political party in our nations history.

    Why do we think Trump became a Republican in the first place?? The same exact scenario… just lower stakes. I’d make the case that Musk has even more interest in marrying the Republican Party than Trump did after the Apprentice got cancelled.
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    The technology to terraform is opposite. Giving Mars an atmosphere would almost certainly be from CO2 production, not reduction.

    If you don't see any value in a species going from single to multiple planets that are self sustaining, you don't really have much long term aspirations for humans.
     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Oh look at who decided to jump in with a chance to act like he’s the smartest person in the room.

    I think my point was clear either way. Whether you are trying to create an engineered atmosphere or not, you are still learning and potentially creating tech that could help the planet we live on now. As I said… I’m on board. You trying to come in and accuse me of being a narrow minded fool because I have some short term objectives just shows you either can’t read or are a troll. I think Space X and NASA are important avenues for expanding our capabilities… but we can’t expand our capabilities if we no longer have an inhabitable planet to operate from.

    What’s our timeline for 300 million+ people to safely live on a fully colonized Mars?? What’s our timeline on Earths climate effective massive catastrophe in regards to food shortages, massive droughts, etc.? One priority seems more imperative than the other IMO… but maybe that’s just because I’m a “EXTREME Democrat”’ on par with the “far right.”

    Or maybe it’s the case that it one could help the other, and so investing in climate change here and Mars colonization doesn’t have to be a zero sum game like you seem to frame the argument as. That to me seems to be the more narrow minded case.
     
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  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I didn't do any name calling or call myself smart. You seem to have some pre determined defensiveness and hurt feelings about your intelligence. Don't project that on me.

    Space exploration is about long term human aspirations. The reason our current human space exploration is in turmoil is from political churn. If literally any direction we decided on would have been kept longer than the 8-9 years of a presidential administration we would have been better off.

    One of the main reasons for failure is your logic is often used. If you want to clean this atmosphere on earth, develop mission driven technology to do that. Don't go to Mars which has entirely different needs.
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Lol … K bud. Says the guy who creates arguments that what someone says isn’t actually what they said and I’ll say the same thing, and claim it’s the right perspective. You play that game here all the time. It’s pretentious and annoying but we’ll just leave it there.

    Back to the topic, I’ve seen very little evidence that presidential terms have anything to do with NASA being underfunded or supported. It’s been very slowly declining over the years since the 90’s because of the lack of relevant missions. Mars was always the next step but was one that needed less funding due to rovers being used instead of relying on the expensive shuttle program.

    I’m actually not narrow minded though like you project me to be because I’m a Democrat therefore I’m always wrong to you, and I’m perfectly fine with billionaires pumping money into space exploration for whatever reason. I have no problem with Space X and don’t see it as a zero sum game as you keep on trying to project me as having this mindset that you wish I had that I don’t.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    again projection. I never said underfunded or supported. I said churn.

    Bush says go to Mars, Obama cancels. NASA has plenty of cash, but are basically a jobs program at this point. SLS is a rocket to nowhere. We are developing missions for the technology not the other way around which is the correct way for mission success. Just building stuff then finding something to do with it is the correct way for a legacy jobs program.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Does anyone know if anyone has setup a social platform to siphon users from Twitter when Elon takes over, fires half the workers, and sells your data to Russia??

    Seems like an obvious way to make a ton of money too. I suspect about 50 million Americans are ready at any moment to move off the platform the second Elon gets control.
     
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    You say some of the most bizarre things.

    -Musk has stated he is letting go 2/3 of the staff, not half
    -Why would you even think he is selling information to Russia? Do you actually think anyone you disagree with is automatically a Russian sympathizer and/or a nazi? Why would Russia care to have your information in the first place, assuming they dont have it already? You're so bizarre.
    -Twitter will be losing 50 million accounts .... bots. WHy would 2/3 of Americans who do not give a **** about who runs a company leave the product?

    Nothing you said makes sense.
     
  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    So your argument as to why I make no sense is I was understating the amount of staff Elon would lay off??

    You are by far the biggest prick on clutchfans. Such a sanctimonious know it all.

    The only reason why Truth Social exists is because of Donald Trump. Saying that Americans don’t care who owns a social media platform and their states intent to use your data for whatever reason is what is bizarre. If that was the case Truth Social wouldn’t exist.
     
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  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    6 month old data:
    Truth Social: 500k daily active users
    Twitter: 217 million daily active users.

    Musk is doing more damage to his own company by laying off 5000 people and removing 5%-40% users (bots/scammers) than your proposed .25%.

    Its just silly to rage over Musk because he questioned Covid, left california, insulted shitty democrats and suggest the people in Ukraine decide their own fate.
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I’m wondering how many people would not post as much or be as active in the Clutchfans community if we didn’t know and trust Clutch.

    If a judgy know it all prick like SpaceGhost ran this site I wonder how much fans would be rushing to download the latest podcast where he tells Bima how he doesn’t know anything about the salary cap.
     
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  14. Major

    Major Member

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    He actually said nearly 75%, not 2/3rds. Weird thing to correct and then do it incorrectly. But beyond that, Musk also lies and exaggerates a lot. You seem to be the only person that takes him at his word over and over.

    He's shown to be easily manipulated by people who stroke his ego. He's shown to be easily manipulated by Putin. He's said he wants to find new ways to monetize Twitter and increase it's value. He's been shown to not care much about ethics or user privacy. It's not a far leap to see that he might sell user data to people.

    If he makes it a "free speech haven" as he wants, and it turns into a place like Gab/Truth Social/Parler due to lack of content moderation, it might see similar usage trends to those. Not to mention cutting 75% of the staff would likely expose it to the same security and uptime issues those services deal with. And the remainder of his staff might end up tasked to censoring whatever China or Russia or Iran ask him to, since he's said he would respect their governments' views on censorship.
     
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  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Since all your other predictions were completely wrong, it is safe to assume these will be as well.
     
  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    You really get caught up in the dumbest semantics. The report I read stated 5000 of the 7500 employees. That would be 2/3's of the work force would be terminated. There are also reports that state 75%, which puts it at 5500 employees. The point you chose to ignore was that it was significantly higher than half. Again, you constantly get caught up in pointless debates just to make yourself seem more informed and more intelligent to justify your biased, and often incorrect points of views.

    Case in point:
    Musk will back out of the deal
    Musk will be forced to buy Twitter

    Which is your prediction?? he will end up with Twitter or he wont? You set it up in a extremely ambiguous way to interpret it however you feel fit.

    Its fascinating how some of you people get so caught up in your political emotions that you choose to ignore some of the greatest accomplishments his companies have created because he tweets a few things you disagree with. Clearly nobody will ever be perfect to you. You must be quite lonely.
     
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  17. dmoneybangbang

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    His greatest accomplishment required a lot of government subsidies and regulations. Elon-stans and anti woke types get sucked into these mythos and narratives.

    Notice how Elon criticizes the US government but never says anything about China..... and yet the narrative is supposed to be how Elon wants to save free speech or whatever.
     
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  18. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    From what I am understanding from you is that any business that accepts subsidies, by design, should eventually fail.


    I was not aware Musk was Chinese. Why do you feel he is obligated to criticize China? Are you stating US citizens shouldn't criticize their government?
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Musk has always been outspoken on all things, not just Americans. He doesn’t criticize China because China is very important to his business.

    His recent statement shows he would accommodate less freedom for stability and not rock the boat of the powerful that can do damage to him. He's not a champion of freedom or free speech. To some, he might be seen as a champion of peace and that's fair. Of course, Taiwan wants to not lose any of her freedom and completely disagrees with him. Freedom loving people would agree with Taiwan.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...sador-thanks-musk-proposal-taiwan-2022-10-09/

    "My recommendation . . .  would be to figure out a special administrative zone for Taiwan that is reasonably palatable, probably won't make everyone happy," Musk told the Financial Times in an interview published on Friday. “And it’s possible, and I think probably, in fact, that they could have an arrangement that’s more lenient than Hong Kong,” he added.

    https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2022/10/09/2003786700

    “Individual independent companies cannot take their ownership as a joke,” DPP Legislator Wang Ting-yu (王定宇) wrote on Facebook. “So why should they casually pass off the democratic freedoms, sovereignty and way of life of 23 million Taiwanese? It is not acceptable for Ukraine, and Taiwan certainly will not allow it.”

    A senior Taiwanese official familiar with security planning in the region told Reuters that “Musk needs to find a clear-headed political adviser.” “The world has seen clearly what happened to Hong Kong,” the anonymous official said. “Hong Kong’s economic and social vibrancy abruptly ended under Beijing’s totalitarian rule.”
     
    #99 Amiga, Oct 23, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
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  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    The people of the Ukraine are deciding their own fate.....or are you suggesting we let Russia kill, rape, mame them?

    DD
     

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