He's also going to be several inches shorter than most PF's in the West. I think he'll find it very difficult to consistently produce if he has trouble seeing the basket, especially when he'll have options like Lamar Odom on the team, who is better than Brand. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Well that is certainly one mans oppinion. Its a good thing nobody told that to Larry Smith or Charles Barkley. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited July 17, 2001).]
DOES ANYBODY ELSE WANT HAKEEM? Has anybody else noticed that lately, no other NBA team has mentioned (publically), any interest in Hakeem. I know that Miami & Phoenix had mentioned interest for a cheap price, but since then I have not read a word about Hakeem. Almost every other, above average, FA has had multiple teams show public interest. WHATS UP? DOES HAKEEM SEE WHAT HIS FAIR MARKET VALUE IS? ------------------
No doubt that being a great rebounding team isn't sufficient to guarantee a title. Obviously though, poor rebounding doesn't get you any closer. Being a great team is a sum of things. You have to be able to elbow and dislodge your opponent. You have to be able to get calls. Oh wait, I mean you have to have a good fg%. You have to be a good rebounding team. You have to play a semblance of defense. Winning a title oftentimes comes down to a handfull of possessions. You can luck into winning a game or two, but if you have more possessions of the ball than your opponent, you'll at least be in the position to be able to win. And 3 of the top 5 were in the top 3-4 teams in the league. I wonder what the whooptie-doo equates to in games won? There are a ton of 89-88 point games throughout the year. Shooting is the hard part, if you don't have the ball though... Further proving my point as to a 'sum of factors'. Philly was 12th in the league in fg%age, but the Eastern Conference Champions. You can get by on bad rebounding. You can get by on bad fg shooting. If you do both poorly... you better steal the damn ball every trip down the court. I took Bill Russell's(?) quote out of context, whoever said it was saying it when the teams were both good shooters. He was putting pressure on himself to make sure that his team had more possessions than the other team. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen... [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited July 17, 2001).]
Barkely was a freak possesed of an enormous ass to back people down, and incredible athletic ability, to jump over them. Brand has neither the ass, nor the athletic ability to be compared to Barkely. ------------------ "So, is there still a big rivalry between North Carolina and Duke?" Craig Sager - Proving the only thing bright about him is his shirt.
Doh. My mistake. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
oeilpere, yes you can have performance bonuses. And you can have minimal requirements, that become nearly guaranteed short of injury. My points are: 1. they are limited to 25% plus the 12.5% raise. 2. they are not guaranteed against injury, as far as I can tell. 3. they WILL count against the cap achieved or not next year if you intend to make them mimimal requirements. Your $6m to $8m is achievable. But it is far from guaranteed. If you wouldn't have said "guaranteed", I would not have called the second one misinformation. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 17, 2001).]
$6 Million X 25% signing bonus deferred to second year = 1.5Million $6 Million X 12.5% raise = .750 million $ 6 Million X 25% performance bonus = 1.5 Million First Year = $6 Million Secind Year = $6 + 1.5 + .750 + 1.5 = $9.75Million I am no expert capologist. But this looks feasible, even to my elementry knowledge. Besides, if my guy says the deal was discussed, and we can be assured it was in earnest and I do believe him otherwise I would not have posted it, then it is legit and I will go with him. ------------------
DearRock: You're not making sense. You're looking at salary-mistakes and saying "aha! This justifies Hakeem's salary." Even in that situation, those guys have something Hakeem doesn't: youth. They have something else as well: their teams weren't under the cap. If you can't get a free agent anyway, signing a role player to a big contract is no big deal. Houston has other people it needs more than Hakeem. They can't afford the luxury of another expensive big man. Already have one in Kelvin Cato. The ultimate question is how the Rockets benefit more: having Hakeem on their roster, or having that money to spend elsewhere. The answer's pretty obvious; next year's free agent crop is pretty good. If they could pick up one of those guys instead, it does them a lot more good. Besides, I suspect that Hakeem might not even play that final year of his contract. His body is wearing down, next year it might very well be completely broken. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
I can't believe this crap! The guy asks for a fair amount of money, which is still less than what Cato is making, and now he is the worst and greediest player in the league. ------------------ Protrolls.com! "I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea... Keep the ???? alive!
yeah, yeah, yeah. But that STILL doesnt tell me WHY the lower amount this year (when we are, what, out of the free agent sweesptakes) instead of next year, when we could be in again. i know the other way around isnt possible, but either way, if you split the salary in half, there would be more cap space next year... so why a lower amount now? something is up. cato + walt + shandon + god knows what else and remaining cap space for...? you tell me op. ------------------ Just ship Cato's ass outta town. Plain and simple. [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited July 17, 2001).]
where does it say you can defer a signing bonus...you can't. The cap hit on a signing bonus is spread over the course of the contract. And in most all cases, the payment is prorated as well. When you say "guaranteed", you are likely saying the contract is covered against "lack of skill" provisions for termination. I believe that is the legal definition of "guaranteed" regarding NBA contracts. So, I can definitely believe someone said the contract is "guaranteed" as regards the Lack of Skill termination provisions. But, should he get a career ending injury, I do not believe a performance bonus can be awarded. in summary, the base-salary of the contract can be guaranteed, but the performance bonus can't. So, I am in agreement on the deals except for the "guaranteed" part. I am left with only minor points regarding that Dream must play to get the bonus, thus he probably doesn't view that as a pure Guaranteed contract. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 17, 2001).]
This is an excellent post from a basketball perspective. We need Dream badly, and I think he'll have a very productive year next year, wherever that may be. I would have no problems giving him the type of contract OP mentioned, or perhaps a little more. Hakeem is crucial to next season's productivity, and getting him for 6.5 million would be a bargain by today's standards. We need someone like Marc Jackson under Hakeem, not in place of. I'm so sick of all the development talk... we've done it for 2 years, and we won 45 games last year. We've already added Eddie Griffin and Terence Morris to that team, and that's not even counting the growth that will come from within. Realistic or not, I want this team to go out next year with the goal of contending, and not a goal of "development." My concern has always been Dream requesting 10 million or more per season, and then seeing the Rockets give into his demands and spoiling their chance this summer of adding another quality big man. In that scenario, we need to move on, unless everyone is unavailable. Dream or not, we need to add another quality 5 this summer. If Hakeem would sign a 2 year contract for around 13 million, with the first year being about 5 million, I'm all for it. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Excellent post Cat. ------------------ Protrolls.com! "I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea... Keep the ???? alive!
Thecat: even assuming the "fire" is back, what makes you think his body will bear another year? It's exceedingly rare for a player to have extensive injury problems over a 5 year period, then miraculously go injury free at at time in life when the degression is actually escalating in rapidity. You're not playing the odds right in that deal. Hakeem will be 40 when it expires. I'm not sure if he'll be worth having as a roleplayer in the 2nd year of that contract. And people: stop referring to Cato's contract as justification for Hakeem's. Arguing that Cato's money means Dream deserves more is based on the premise that Cato's money is deserved. If it's not, then his contract isn't a valid consideration. Sheesh... you can't abuse a contract 364 days a year, and then when it justifies an argument, act like it's simply the "going rate for big men." Bah. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
I am the last guy to be spouting CBA stuff because I don't understand it as much as others (aelliott,etc...). But if I accept that my source was correct in the initial premise of this thread, then it must logically follow that there is an explanation to the issue raised by HeyPee. From .... Larry's CBA Q & A Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 25% of the total compensation, and may do so whether or not the team is over the cap. If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is averaged among the guaranteed years of the contract and added to the team salary during those years. If a player has an opt-out clause, the bonus is allocated only to the years prior to the opt-out date. Payments in excess of $350,000 that are made to non-NBA teams or federations to release rights to a player are treated like signing bonuses under this rule. Option buy-out amounts are also treated like signing bonuses. 1. Where does it disprove that a sign-on bonus cannot be deferred or partially deferred to a subsequent year? 2. It appears on second reading that the actual bonus on a $6 + $8 contract would be 25% of $14 Million which actually raises the total contract signing bonus to $3.5million. That is even $2 million more than I originally calculated. First Year = $6 Million Second Year = (base + deferred bonus + raise + incentive) = 6 + 3.5 + .750 + 1.5 = $11.75M This is getting interesting. ------------------
