Pay attention to the offensive rebounds. The only 'freebie' rebounds that he gets on the defensive end are based on the other team. BTW, I'm begginning to lose the point of this tirade again. Did Cato ever get 16/10? If he had, I'd see your point. The Rockets also had Dream on those championship rosters. Welcome aboard PRM! Well there is such thing as positional defense. But I don't know anything about Marc Jackson's game. But in regards too... I'll say, they have Cato! There you go pal! You're set! Now as far as the rest of the viable alternatives at Center(just in case Cato gets injured)... whoa lookie here, it says some guy by the name of Hakeem Olajuwon is available. We should check out his stats... he's a legit 7'er and it sounds like he only wants 6-7 mill a year. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
1)Dream isn't 7 feet tall. 2) I have no objection to paying him 6-7 million this year. I do object to a two-year contract at those terms though. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Poodle4, you apparently didn't read my post. Unless you're arguing that the Warriors are shooting both times down the floor (it'd explain their record), I think you have to focus your attention on a crappy team's fg %age on offensive rebounding. I already conceded that Marc Jackson has 2.5 offensive rebounds. Next! God this is getting too easy, I'm programming, hitting on my wife and knocking down you guys at the same time. As long as I don't start knocking down my wife and hitting on you guys, I'll be set. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
I had to give you guys something. You were all scrounging around like old men playing bingo. "oh yeah, I have a great point". "go back to sleep Cecil". "sleeeeeep". ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
Okay when exactly did I say get a CBA player that can do all of these things? I want a C that gets trash points and is cheap. If a center is available that can block shots, then I'm willing to pay extra for him. Also on the Griffin point, I concur with Nikestrad that there is a big difference between a weak side shotblocker like Griffin and a shotblocker at center. Also Achebe, I'm okay with Dream, I'm not happy with him getting paid so much in his 2nd year, but I'm okay with it. I'm not okay with throwing Marc Jackson on this team with Dream. If Marc Jackson joined this team, there's no way in hell he gets 16 points. I mean Steve and Cuttino scored just under 20. We've got Taylor who will get his points as well. There's no way Jackson scores 16 for us, so he's just a short rebounder with no shotblocking ability. We could get that anywhere. Opposing teams aren't afraid of centers b/c of their positional defense...they're afraid of centers that block their shots. Since Jackson can't do that, then I say sign a little scrubby center that can use positional defense and rebound for a cheaper price than 5 million. ------------------ President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while...
PS: Tell your wife I said "Hi" ------------------ President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while...
Ugh. The Warriors unnaturally high number of shots is indicative of a higher paced game. A higher paced game has more shots from both teams. More shots mean more rebounds. An unnaturally high number of rebounds means that Jackson's rebounding numbers are inflated. And that's not even considering who Jackson was playing with, which most of the year consisted of CBA guys. Jackson is not a 10/reb per game kind of guy, no more than Elton Brand is a 20/10 guy. If we are going to spend this money, I am of the opinion that we should either give Dream a one-yr contract, or get some warm bodies from the NBDL(since the CBA no longer exists). I would rather not give Dream a two-yr contract, nor would I give money to a one-yr wonder. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
rotflmao! I will forever have too high of a bar to live up to b/c of you PRM. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
Though I have no particular personal opinion about Marc Jackson... I would like to ask: Is there a place w/ quantifiable statistics to back up your claim? The Kings have a high paced game, but noone discounts Webber's rebounds per game. The Lakers fastbreak from time to time, and Shaq seems like he's a decent rebounder. Iverson et al can get out on the break, but Dike has a pretty strong rebounding game. I'm basically asking: Are all fastbreaking teams' Centers artificially inflating their stats? There's a whole body of work behind the #s. Some teams will shoot crappy shots b/c they have decent/great rebounders under the bucket. Allen Iverson shoots for crap, for example, but he has Dike to clean up for him. Larry Brown and Allen Iverson said that that much of their plays were exactly geared around that. God, I can't believe I'm wasting so much energy over Marc Jackson. *sigh* Anyway, let us know how you arbitrarily differentiate between fast paced game rebounds for your 'good' rebounder vs. your 'bad' rebounder. I find it hard to believe that you'd just base it on shots per game. If I had an abnormally great offensive rebounder, I would expect to shoot more shots per game... and I might slow it down in the halfcourt everytime down. There's a lot more to rebounding than just dogging on a bad team. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
Right Bill. If indeed he said that, his statement is meant for the motivational pep talk. Here are some facts : 1) The two best rebounding teams last year were the Pistons and the Warriors. Coincidentally, the two teams with the worst FG% were the Pistons and the Warriors. 2) The majority of rebounds are defensive rebounds, so the more you brick on offense, statistically the higher the percentage of rebounds the opposition gets. Of the top 10 rebounding teams last year, 4 were not very good teams (Pistons, Warriors, Nuggets, Clippers). 3) The variance in rebounding among the top 9 rebounding teams last year was negligible. The top rebounding team, the Pistons, averaged 45.537 rebounds per game. The 9th team, the Spurs, averaged 44.073. The rebounding numbers for the number 10-22 teams varied a whopping 1.6 rebounds. Whooptie-doo. 4) The best teams last year were the ones with the highest FG%. Of the 15 highest FG% shooting teams, 4 didn't make the playoffs, but 2 of them, Houston and Seattle, were good teams that were trapped in a tough division. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
By the way, how horrific is Chicago if they shot the worst and rebounded the least? Their record shows it. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
Just increasing the number of responses here. Only a few more hours till the all the agreements are official. An exciting day for most teams...except the Rockets. ------------------
Not on a team that's not as sucky as the Bulls. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Webber, O'Neal and Deke have all demonstrated superior rebounding ability independent of a high paced team, especially considering neither the Lakers nor the Sixers are relatively fast-paced teams. When discussing Mark Jackson, we are discussing a guy who came out of literally nowhere, and on the worst team in NBA history that plays a run-n-shoot type of ballgame, he managed to have some decent rebounding numbers. That is what makes me wary of him. He had little surounding talent, and everyone around him was throwing up everything but the kitchen sink - of course he managed to rip done some boards. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
20 and 10 is 20 and 10 no matter the team. You can't fault a player for the team he plays on. As I recall Otis Thorpe was a 20 and 10 player on a suck as team before he came to the Rockets. Seems like he was able to keep his same level of play when he joined us even though he was no longer the focus of attention on the team. Oh yeah and lets not forget the undersized Larry Smith that came from a pretty bad team. He joins the Rockets and still produced rebounds like he was on a bad team. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited July 17, 2001).]
If 20 and 10 guys don't count if they are on a suck as team does that mean that we can no longer count all those great years that Charles Barkley had in Philly? Those were some awefull teams. ------------------
Oh crap how could I forget...Moses Malone does not deserve some of those 3 MVP awards since some of those teams were pretty bad. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited July 17, 2001).]
It is a well-documentated fact that playing on a bad team with no talent around you inflates your stats. See Larry Johnson. If Brand gets similar numbers on the Clips, and the fare well, then feel free to rub this in my face, but I don't believe that Brand is on par with other 20/10 guys in the league. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Before you get so comfortable with that statement let me remind you that Brand is not a shrinking violet. The man totes some serious bulk so he should not wear down against any of the 4s in the west. Hell he is bulkier than any other western power forward anyway. Because of the increase in offensive weopons that the Clippers will have he may or may not score 20 but he will get his rebounds and continue to be an offensive threat that will at least score in the high teens. ------------------
