Achebe, I was just assuming Webber and Jackson are out of the picture and there isn't really any other "small commodities" out there this year that interest me (Naz & MacC already are off the table for sure; I am not interested in any 1-3s not on our team and think Mo T is better for us than any other 4's out there this side of Webber). In summary, I'd rather give up a little trade flexibility this year and be able to write a supertstar (or at least borderline all-star caliber) contract offer to FA next year. Of course if we have GOOD REASON (versus hypotheticals only) to think a few extra small change in cap space this year will be of use to us--e.g., facillitate trading for Lafrenz, trading of Cato, Walt and/or SA for Lafrenz or somebody else intriguing) than we have a different story. But unless we are very condfident the small change will be useful this offseason, let's create some big space room (15 mil roster spot) for next year.
Don't worry about it haven, those student loans are deferrable. LOL! BTW, you miiiiight win. I just doubt it. Oh yeah, $500~ is for both tickets, not just one. You might be able to do even better than that. I can routinely get 8th row tickets to Rockets games here in Utah for $85-110 per seat (though they're at just a bit of an angle). I've only gotten prime prime seats behind the bench once. Those tickets were $275.00 a piece... and the b*stard Jazz guy was the one selling them to me (that guy has no soul, but he keeps his biscuit happy). I understand that you didn't know the true value of the seats. You can BahDakota your way out of the host if you suddenly see the logic in giving Dream what it takes to get him to sign. hahhahhhahahaa. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
What you think is merely speculation, just like me. So why can't I assume CD WILL NEVER AGREE TO A TWO YEAR DEAL! You called me a imbecile for suggesting we would negotiate a 1yr. You were wrong. You now claim that an incredibly insulting 2yr deal to Dream means a 2yr is now the only thing we will offer. Do you know for sure this time, or merely speculating once again? What you think Fegan will or will not do, is not the issue to me. The issue is whether CD is continuing to hold steady to a 1yr deal. And a $4.5m low ball does not indicate to me whatsoever that CD has changed his mind. My speculation that CD will never sign a 2yr guaranteed deal is no different than your speculation that Fegan will negotiate better and get his 2yr. It is deadlock between CD and Fegan, and you are telling me to shut up about CD's 1yr intention, no? In view of deadlock, why can't I continue talking about the importance of CD holding steady to a 1yr deal. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 17, 2001).]
Excellent point-- that's what I was thinking about earlier. The scenario is possible, but it does not happen often. How many good 5's have you seen teams with extra cap room and flexibility get in trades? You guys say Marc Jackson isn't proven, that he isn't worthy of our Dream windfall. Who is worthy that will be available via trade or free agency with all of this flexibility? Let's run down the proven centers that we know will be produce well: Shaquille O'Neal- No Alonzo Mourning- No David Robinson- No Dikembe Mutombo- No Theo Ratliff- No Antonio Davis- No Marcus Camby- No Raef Lafrentz- Yes Jermaine O'Neal- No Lafrentz may be available, but he is the only decent 5 available next summer, and he will cost 10 mil or more. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the money this summer and commit 5-6 to Jackson instead of committing 10 to Lafrentz. And even if you think Raef will come for less, do you really want to put all of your eggs in one basket? He's the only proven big man that will be available in these trades next summer. Unless you are willing to suck and get a high draft pick, or unless you want to spend near max money to get guys like Antonio Davis, you are going to have to take risks on guys like Marc Jackson to have a quality center. We took one on Cato and it didn't work out. So? Championship teams take risks. Just because it backfired with one player doesn't mean it will with everyone. And by the way, Jackson has proven a whole lot more than Cato ever did. Assuming we lock up Mo, we do not need a 1, 2, 3, or a 4. We need a young quality 5. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather take Dream and Marc Jackson this summer than wait until next year for the chance to spend near the max on a 12/8 center in Raef Lafrentz. That sure sounds exciting. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Crispee your wrong again, I said that you were crazy to think that Fegan would agree to a one year deal. Of course CD wants Hakeem to sign a one year deal, everybody on CLUTCH CITY wants Hakeem back for a fair price. The argument between us has always been that you would give Hakeem 10-12 million (or whatever) for one last year and I dont think Hakeem is worth much more than the 4.5 million exception (that he could sign for elsewhere). ------------------
Before you claim me as a loser for a new bet we haven't made, I am all in favor of signing Dream ...one.yr.at.a.time. I think we play our best ball with him, next yr. and this is obviously from a someone with schizophrenia. I one side, you are a huge advocate of Webber (no Dream), and on the other side you want Dream (and no Webber). After Griffin, I've been steady with the no Webber bandwagon. And I've been steady with the "we need Dream". I just don't want to give him 2 guaranteed yrs. When it all comes down to it, I may cringe at a 2 yr deal (for future reasons), but you won't find me whining about Marc Jackson missed opportunity. I will get really excited knowing that we will indeed play our best ball with Dream. In fact, we are so spoiled with the Francis, Griffin and Mo' steals, we should bite the bullet and sign Dream for 2yrs and make it forever hard for us to land a starting center again, and force us to development marginal talent into a center who we can tolerate as an overachiever. I can do it because I have tickets to enjoy, but can the fickle Achebe Webber lover/renounce Dream do it.
The Cat, I think you may even have a stronger point than you believe. I'm pretty sure that the Nuggets have an option for LaFrentz for the 2002-2003 year. I could be wrong, but if that option exists then FA money is pointless next year for this team. Besides, as far as "matching salaries", I'm pretty sure that Walt's 6M off the books will give the Rockets some space. Hell, how much space do you want to match crispee? Francis has to be locked up sooner than later, and Alexander doesn't want to pay the tax from my readings. He's not going to go out and get a Kemp. He's not going to trade for a Garnett. And like The Cat mentioned, third party teams don't end up w/ good young Centers as toss ins to make salaries match. This is the summer. Dream is the best standing FA Center this year. He'll be the best standing FA Center next year. BELIEVE. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
That is 13/8, thank you very much and he has a little more range on his shot than Marc. Either would be fine by me, though. And you didn't mention Elden Campbell and Ben Wallace (Mr. Free Throw) in your list of decent centers in the NBA. Plus, Nazr Mo who was just signed. Also, the Cavs have Z (if healthy) and Mihm (soft but much better than Cato). If we can't land Jackson this season, I'd like to see one of the other guys in pinstripes next offseason, by trade if necessary. After that, the cap flexibility we've built is completely shot. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
Ok, assuming Dream and Marc Jackson are the only free agent centers left on the market, what can the Rockets do? Are they over a barrel? Hardly. They hold the upper hand. If Dream wants to play hard ball, the Rockets can do the same. Renounce Dream. Where can he go? Where can he get anywhere near the kind of money he's asking for? If the answer is nowhere, then what's the harm (besides a PR backlash in H-town)? Let he and his agent dangle in the wind for a couple of weeks until their senses have cleared. This time will give the Rockets the opportunity to sign who they want, in terms of available free agents. Then, after the Rockets have taken care of their business, they can come back to Dream (if he's still available) and offer him what they think he's worth. My point is, are Dream's options 1) playing for the Rockets next year, or 2) 'forced' retirement, since no other team will pick him up for the $$$ he wants? ------------------
Very nice, a young quality 5 is Marc Jackson? The 48 game wonder is a young quality 5? You also left an important stat for Lafrentz... 12/8/2.64 What's that 2.64? Blocks/game What's the young quality 48 game wonder's blocks/game? .56 LaFrentz is an extra blocker, and for a team that has plenty of scorers, that's all we need from a C. A guy that can block shots and can hit a shot when asked to. I'd much rather rough it for a season or two with a cheap center platoon to make a run at LaFrentz than pay another unproven center money. Unless you consider a guy that's pulled down 12 and 7.5 for a total of 48 games a proven player. Having 4 centers that played a total of 164 games last year really excites me. The sad thing about a Dream/Collier/Cato/Jackson group is Dream was the one that was the healthiest last season! ------------------ President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while... [This message has been edited by Pete Rose Mobster (edited July 17, 2001).]
crispee, I'm not too sure about Webber anymore. I love his stats... but that rumor (and I guess I should add "maybe it's just that") that he refused to guard Shaq kind of spoiled me on the guy. Anybody that would refuse an assignment is a *****, IMO. Hell, Kenny took it to Shaq (after asking Shaq not to kill him, but that's besides the point). Webber also started truly seeming like a ***** when he didn't deny wanting to go East to get out of the sphere of Shaq and Duncan. Now the guy is acting like a 17 year old girl that falls in love w/ whatever team that wants him. Maybe Mo doesn't rebound as much as I'd like him to... but at least he's not a little girl about it. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
oh and can I say something else? <h2>THE NUGGETS HAVE LAFRENTZ'S OPTION FOR 2002-2003</h2> So can you guys talk about another reason to not give Dream his 2 year deal?
Save cap space for someone that will be able to play. Hakeem has missed a considerable amount of games each season during the past few years. His blood condition continues to hamper his play and there have been talks of retirement because of that. So why sign a multi year contract when there's an above average chance that he may not be there to play? Sign him to a one year deal and then reevaluate next year. ------------------
I would be thrilled if we could get both Marc J (say for a 5 year deal) and Dream (scenario 1). In this case I would even sign a 2 year deal for Dream, because in Jackson at least have a "promising" role playing center even if Hakeem's effectiveness is completely gone by the end of next year. But I don't think Jackson will sign with us. Therefore, I am assuming we go into this season with Dream/Cato/Collier for our center position (scerario 2). This is acceptable for another "learning year" and Dream should help us win some games, but it not a very acceptable position for next year and thereafter. I am not sure Hakeem will contribute much by then, and have no confidence the other 2 centers will ever produce like an NBA starting 5 should. Given scerario 2 is likely (no Jackson), and we have a short window before our current 1-3 young players max out, I want to have the maximum flexibility for next year. Surely next year will uncover guys not on your list at least as promising as Jackson/Naz. Who knows, maybe a new player will emerge that is even more promising (a 2nd round pick from last year or this year or late blooming FA) than any one this year. In other words, while Lafrez is just one potential option (I guess more as a trade than strait FA signing), I am sure there will be many other options, and we should be ready to pounce with a big contract that I don't want to be limited by Hakeem's salary slot for year 02/03. Unless something is in the works (Jackson/other trade) offer Hakeem the most we possible can now in a 1 year deal (10-13 mil), but that is all we should commit. Oh by the way, Webber and Hakeem was my "Dream Scenerio" but I am assuming that is a pipe dream. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited July 17, 2001).]
I don't mind the contract that much, I'd prefer to go into the season with the extra capspace just in case a "SAR"-like situation occurs with another team and we could capitalize on it with a decent trade. There really isn't anyone in the free agent market that interests me that much so I definitely don't want to spend it on Marc Jackson. If I had to choose between a 2 year deal with Dream or a longterm deal with Jackson, I'll take Dream, but I ultimately prefer the capspace and not overpaying for free agents just b/c we have the capspace. ------------------ President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while...
And Dan Issell doesn't like LaFrentz. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Toepatch, sorry, who did you used to be? You are right, but I think Issel would be more likely to exercise the option and do a sign and trade, rather than not get any value for him. ------------------
Griffin provides the shotblocking we need. A center who can block some shots is a bonus, not a requirement. You know, Antawn Jamison had a breakout year two seasons ago (1999-2000) too, but for just 40 something games, much like Jackson. Is he a two year wonder? And now that Achebe has confirmed that the Nugz have a team option on Lafrentz' contract, who do you propose we go after? What "proven" centers are going to be available in free agency or trades? Whether you have Cato or not, you have to take risks to be a successful team. Holding Dream's cap room is nice, but what proven big man will be out there for us to acquire before Francis' extension kicks in? We screwed up with Cato. Not every young center is the same. Unless you want our starting center long-term to be Kelvin Cato, you will have to take some form of a risk on a younger center such as Marc Jackson. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited July 17, 2001).]
I think Moe's right poodle4. Dan isn't going to just let LaFrentz walk. Teams usually don't do that w/ top 10 picks. BTW, are you sure that Dan Issel doesn't like LaFrentz? I thought that he compared LaFrentz to himself...? ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
