Shandon, Dream started to fit in. He said it was fun and he knew how he fit in. Sporting News article...1/27 Olajuwan's demands quelled for now.... ------------------
If he doesn't want a one year deal, renounce him. Hakeem is slowing the rebuilding process by his salary demands. Seriously, the Rockets have a very slim chance to win the championship even with Hakeem. Since there are no longer any good FAs out there at the center position (thanks to Hakeem and agent with the delay tactic), the Rockets should just pay him what they can afford after re-signing all the players they want back. I think it will be somewhere along the lines of $5-7 million which is more than he can get elsewhere. After next season they can take that money to spend on a younger player for the future...if no one is available then re-sign Hakeem again. ------------------
and another one Guaranteed backended deals are not allowed in the NBA. This thread is spreading some misinformation here. oeilpere. Those two backended deals you mentioned are illegal--the $4m and $7m and the $6m and $8m. Dream can only get a 25% signing bonus (frontend) and 12.5% raises plus 25% incentive bonuses is all we can muster on the backend. And obviously 25% performance-based bonuses are not gauranteed, especially the "Unlikely Bonus" variety. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 17, 2001).]
Hakeem does not deserve that money, nor is he a steal for that. Why? Because NO ONE else would give it to him. The only reason we appear willing to is because of Hakeem's stature with the franchise, which I understand. However, simply as a player, he is not worth $6.5 million per season because the market won't bear that out. ------------------ How the hell should I know why God would allow the Holocaust. I don't even know how the electric can opener works. - from Hannah and Her Sisters
Well, you all seem to have the same reaction that I have. That is, that Hakeem is needed on our roster, but the price seems to be a little stiffer in the long run than anyone had anticipated. The case in point is .... 1. that he will NOT likely play 70-80 games in the two years, so it is not only costly to have money tied up in a spot, but that we will not have adequate coverage for the five because we have no money to sign a worthy replacement. 2. he has prolonged this issue to the point that all available fives have made other deals and or have been given the impression that we do not have the money (or time) for them. Robinson - not that he was a real possibility to start with, but it would have been fun to take the two brief negotiating sessions with him a step further, and who knows ..... oh well, he will start in San Antonio. M.Jackson - it looks more and more that he will sign a long term deal with Golden State. I did not like the idea that he was a sub 6'11' center but he was near the top of my list for affordable FAs. If he doesn't sign at home the next spot is very likely Saettle. Nazr - well the attractiveness of a tall, swatting, "mean when I want to be" pivot man that could be had for 4.5 to 6.5 million was inticing. The fact that Shandon may have been parlayed into a Sign and Trade to accomadate that, was even more tantalizing. He will sign a multi year deal with Atlanta. McCulloch - I thought he would be an excellent guy off the bench, especially if coupled with any two of our returning (Hakeem, Cato, Collier) centers. I felt we could afford to unload either Cato or Hakeem (certainly Cato is preferred) and place McCulloch in the platoon with Collier and the either Cato or Hakeem. It would have been a godd mix. McCulloch will sign with either the Nets or the Sixers. Sabonis - there is no way we could handle both Hakeem and Sabonis taking up two roster spots. But I saw Sabonis as a reliable alternative at a cheap - I actually saw him as coming in for $2M single year - price tag. He would serve the Hakeem role well, veteran, playmaker, much slower than Hakeem, but a definite anchor (figuratively and literally) in the middle. It is unlikely that he will ever wear an NBA uni again, but if he does it won't be in Houston. Curry - Don'y laugh, I held off on this one for a long while .... There was some stirrings in the Windy City that Krause could be enticed to unload his star homeboy first rounder. That coupled with sincere and lengthy talks concerning Cato's move to Chicago in a major trade kept my head busting for several days. Curry still isn't meeting all the expectations in the summer league, but the Bulls also seem to have gained a little more patience over the summer. Sad thing for us. I had a usually reliable media guy from "up north" tell me earnestly that he thought Curry was going to be traded. He even said that in (his) estimation that Houston was on the top of the list for EC's destination. I not only thought that this was a bit radical on the Bull's part(even for Krause), but I have been unable to confirm anything even close to linking Curry to Houston talks. IMHO, it was not accurate. That is not to say that Krause wouldn't unload his own mother to pick up a great starting center or a starting point guard of note. Othella - there was some movement in the Knick household and it appears that "O" may be odd man out. Larry Johnson's on again - off again retirement is on again. Weatherspoon is heading to Gotham City for a frightful lot of money and these two Power Forwards along with VanGundy's run and shoot ideas with Spree and Camby well .... will that eats into Harrington's split time at the four. I like him at the five in Houston. He is rangy, good lateral movement, works his heart out and is seldom injured. Got enough of a hook and a "push em over" short shot, that he keeps his opponents off the weakside. He would be fun to have here. A nice pick up(although he is not a FA), he would compliment Hakeem and Collier well. Or Cato and Collier. Or Hakeem and Cato. Cheers. ------------------
Hold your ass, HeyPee. I have emailed Larry C. and although I have not got a reply as yet, I am positive a deal that loads up on one year is possible in a number of ways. The most obvious is a performance based incentive basis. All the NBA league requires is that it be acheivable. An incentive that has minimal requirements in the second year, say for example playing in twenty games, is not only acheivable but likely. ------------------
Jeff, if Jersy is paying Todd 5+mill you are telling me they would no pay Akeem $7m if they were already in the Playoffs. I believe they would. So would quite a lot of other teams. Do not forget that the tax(Stern) is causing some restraint, but had it not been for the tax, Utah should and would pay him that. You say Stern affected his market price, not his play. Also some teams' hands are tied because of bad or unfortunate dealings, but quite a few of them, given the cap room would pay him. In other words, if there were 10 teams with the space the Rockets have he would get that price easily. Hell on our own team you have Walt and Cato. He is worth the money. ------------------
Jeff, ask Cato what the market will bear. Ask Todd Mac. what the market will bear. Ask Antonio Davis what the market will bear. Dream won't sign for Houston just b/c they can blackmail him into taking more than what another team will offer. Shandon Anderson didn't. David Robinson threatened it. Hakeem's mentality is back on track. The fire is on again, and if people on this board can't see it... they're blind. I'll bet that Dream plays a 12/10/1.5 game this year if he's given ~25 mpg by the Rockets.
oeilpere, The CBA does say the signing bonuse may not be deferred. Here is the actually CBA text: Trust me man, signing bonuses are not deferred in either terms of real yearly compensation or yearly cap hit.
TheCat: Nobody's arguing with the *first* year figure. But the 2nd year figure is going to preclude signing any other free agents, which would otherwise be possible. If Hakeem had much of a chance of being anything other than dead weight that 2nd year... fine. But IMO, the odds are that his body will break down before 2 years are up. Is that 2nd year really worth the first is what I'm asking you. If you wait after next year, you don't get the "dream windfall" that Heypartner is so excited about.... Francis signs for the max and makes that no longer available. Is signing dream for *this* year worth giving up the windfall? Very few people are trying to argue that it wouldn't be a good deal *this* year. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news. [This message has been edited by haven (edited July 17, 2001).]
What the Rockets need now is a little leverage. Lets begin a gentle public "Stay Humble, Stay Sensible, Stay In Houston" campaign. That way, RT and CD can use the "public is not totally happy with this 2-year contract as it stands now" in negotiations. Bombard radio shows with calls from members of the "Prudent, Informed and Loyal Houston Rockets Fans Unlimited" indicating that we would love to keep Hakeem, but that we will do the following if he does not budge by 15-20%: 1) We will re-name our Hakeem bobblhead dolls "Kenny Smith Bobblehead Dolls" (they look more like him anyway) 2) We will not give him the loudest ovation during pregame introductions 3) We will not patronize Dream and Brothers Car Wash 4) He will hear it from us if he is loafing during games 5) We will print angry missives and leave them at his front door 6) We will photograph him while he shops for groceries. If he gives us a sane 2-year deal or stays for one-year single digit $, we will continue to cheer our loyal little hearts out even when he is taking the night -- or week or month -- totally off. He will remain an uncoditionally-loved Houston icon. Till then, though, keep your eyes on the rafters when buying the Almond Butter! CBFC ------------------ Join the Chucky Brown Fan Club
already posted ------------------ Endtroduction.......... [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited July 17, 2001).]
Another thing about the deal, if this is the deal people listing Marc Jackson as a potential back-up center to Dream can put that to rest because a 2 year GUARANTEED deal isn't going to allow that. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
GO ACHEBE GO THE CAT GO DREAM AND GO ROCKETS!! basically you're talking about paying Dream the SAME MONEY for FEWER YEARS than TODD MC, NAZR or MJACKSON and if you saw any of the second half of last year, and you saw Dream tell the doctors to piss off and let him back on the court, you know that is a STEAL. I mean, what the hell does Dream have to do to appease the DreamBashers?? Apparently he has to be 20-something, play limited minutes for a crappy team, put up decent rebounding numbers and have ZERO offensive game, in which case a 2-year deal for $13mm would be viewed as a genius signing by the Rockets. I can't wait to revive this thread in June as we get ready to battle the Lakers or the Mavs for the Western Conference title. ------------------
I don't believe "Dreams" deal if it is only for 2 years will hurt us. It will be done in 2 years. Tim Duncan lurking, Spurs have new area so do the Rockets. No Admiral, Franchise still in town. Who may be more attractive? From what I have read, Olajuwon's best option is Houston, which is fine with me. The market is closed as far as other teams are concerned. At least, that is what I have read. Nothing so far to dispute it. Olajuwon is a way better option than anything available. I have compiled his stats since 1/24. In case you haven't seen them. In the last 40 games of the year... He played 28 games, missed 12. In 28 games Olajuwon averaged: PPG 14.0 RPG 8.79 BPG 1.75 SPG 1.29 Minutes per game 28.1 Doubt me, I will give you Cato's stats while Hakeem was out. Hope my grammer has been close...that 's thing is kicking my butt. ------------------
No, the reason people wanted those players was because they are young, and can grow with the team. Dream is 38 years old, breaking down, and complaining about being a part of the offense. He will also tie up the cap and be gone in a year or 2. If Dream's body has broken down every year since 1999 why should the next 2 years be any better!? And why do people keep comparing his contract to Cato's when everybody admits Cato's contract was a mistake? And the problem isn't the fact that Dream's contract ends in time for Duncan and company to be FAs, will he be around by then!? Giving out one bad contract doesn't justify handing out another potentially bad contract. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 17, 2001).]
Haven, What near max big man available next year will be potentially more valuable to us than Marc Jackson this year? The top two big men I hear the most about next year are Raef Lafrentz and Michael Olowokandi. I'd rather spend my "windfall" on Marc Jackson this summer to play behind Dream for a couple of years than either one of those. Olowokandi I simply don't think is as good as Jackson, and Raef will cost too much. Centers are too rare these days, and while Carter and Jamison may attract the most attention, I think you may also see a scenario much like this year in which teams went for the center who fit in with the team (Antonio Davis) as much or more than the superstar (Chris Webber). If Raef signs for around 6-7 million, I will definitely admit I was wrong. However, in a day where centers are extremely scarce, I can't imagine him signing for under 10 million. And even if the Rockets could afford it, it would cripple us over the longhaul by putting us very near or over the luxury tax, which Les probably isn't willing to pay. We would have no flexibility in this situation, and whenever one of our own players becomes a free agent we would lose them because we couldn't give them a raise. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Haven, 1. pass on Anderson ($3m?), Moochie($3m?) and Bullard ($2m?) because I believe we have viable, cheaper alternatives (Colson - Moochie, Dench-Bullard, Anderson - Langhi/Morris) 2. Trading Walt and/or Cato is not to get cap space but to get a better 5. If you can do that and do #1 above, you will have the money to get Dream and Taylor etc. ------------------
Guys, as it is right now we have more talent than LA and Philli so do not sound so desperate. ------------------
Rocks, Signing Dream for two years has no impact on resigning Mo. We have the room to give him a multi-year deal starting at roughly 5.5 million this summer, regardless of how many years Dream signs for. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
