Anyway you look at it, we are scre**d in next years FA market. Hakeem will get his wish, 2 year guaranteed deal, and will kill the Rockets future at the 5 spot!!!! Its time to go shopping in the CBA!!!, for our center of the future!!!! thanks Hakeem ------------------
No, but my point is that looking at rebounding numbers doesn't really guarantee you anything, yet we throw it around like it's the be-all-end-all-final-solution to the Rockets winning a title. It ain't. In other words, once again rebounding doesn't prove one way or the other much of anything. It doesn't really equate to much of anything. Why? Because if there's only a 1-2 rebound difference among teams on average throughout the season, that means that any given team can beat any other given team rebounding on any given night -- as a total (offensive and defensive combined), it's insufficient data to prove anything. It's like me saying my team got 50 boards, the other team got 49. Who won? Who knows? Heck my team could've gotten 36 boards and the other team could've gotten 48 boards and I still could've won. You can't pin the loss of a 1 point game on any one or two rebounds. What if we could've gotten that extra steal, or that extra blocked shot? If that was your point, then I agree with you. I just don't happen to agree with those that say we have to have some kind of monster beneath the boards to do well or move onto the next level. By the way, Philly does so well, because their defensive FG% is so damn good. If I recall they were #2 last year in that. I'll stick to saying that good FG% and good defense wins in this league. The whole rebounding numbers thing is a crapshoot with no statistical correlation to winning that I've found yet simply because if you shoot badly, you can artificially inflate your numbers. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
Nobody is refering to Cato as justification. Put it another way, you are asking the Dream to pay for you mistakes. That is what it is, haven. Remember he is not a part-owner. All he wants to do is bust his butt and get paid. And based on what he means and can still do with the supporting cast, then do not nickle and dime the man. We do need a big fella(270+lbs) but let's not throw away the baby with the bath water. Pound for pound he is the best available and he means so much. Just passing on Moochie, Bullard, Anderson and/or trading Cato or Walt will give you all the cap room you need. ------------------
Haven, It is for that reason I have always been in favor of going after Dream and another 5 this summer. If Dream takes a contract that pays roughly 5 million next season, and Mo signs for a long-term deal starting at 5.5, we would have plenty of room to sign someone such as Marc Jackson, Arvydas Sabonis, etc. And, the majority of the last several years when he has had injuries, he has been healthy for the stretch run and the playoffs, which is what I want him for the most. The experience, the fit in team chemistry, the low post moves.-- all of those things will be crucial when the games have meaning. I probably view it differently than you guys though. I don't see the Lakers and think dynasty. I don't look at the Spurs and think too physically dominating. I see that the Rockets have already drastically improved a team that won 45 games last season, and that the two teams in the Finals only had 56 wins. Realistic or unrealistic, I am sick of development talk. We are a good team, and I want to win. With Hakeem on this roster, we will be a team that no one wants to play come March, April, and May. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
I don't understand why some people are okay with paying him $5 million this year and $6-7 million the next. To me its the same difference except that he will be another year older (which isn't good). That money can be easily used to lure younger centers to Houston. I have no problem with him coming back for $5-6 million this year and this year only. Anything more may jeopardize the Rockets' chances with signing their own FAs. The Rockets need Moochie AND Taylor back and both are going for at least $4.5 million. We are paying Hakeem $5 million for 40-50 games (since he has averaged around that these past few years). So in a way he is getting paid his $10 million for a full season. I don't think he will buy that though. ------------------ [This message has been edited by SlamN (edited July 17, 2001).]
oeilpere, thx for explaining your numbers. I understand where you get those, and I understand how you can call the contracts "guaranteed" and presume the performance bonus is covered as well. Can you understand how I came about calling those illegal by assuming your starting numbers where intended to be equivalent to the first yr cap hit, which they can't if a 25% bonus is used? here's some more math: 1st yr cap hits assuming 25% signing bonus This uses oeilpere's starting numbers. I merely show this to show what Dream's cap hit, in order to know how much we have left for others. <pre><font face="courier"> $4.5m = $5.06m first yr cap hit $6m = $6.75m first yr cap hit $6.5m = $7.3 first yr cap hit </pre></font> Total Guaranteed portion of contract This assumes 25% signing bonus plus 12.5% raise. This assume both yrs are guaranteed against "Lack of Skill" termination. This show what Dream is paid if he is retired or waived due to injury and can't perform the 2nd yr to receive the 25% performance. <pre><font face="courier"> base 1st yr 2nd yr total salary Cap hit Cap hit ------------------------------------ $4.5m = $5.06m + $6.19m = $11.25m $6m = $6.75m + $8.25m = $15m $6.5m = $7.3 + $8.94 = $16.24m </pre></font> oeilpere, don't take this as criticism of your source. I merely believe that as a group, cc.net can get these numbers correct as well as anyone can. Waiting for Coon confirmation is unnecessary most of the time. And it is all for the better. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 17, 2001).]
I would rather not make the playoffs without Hakeem, than make the playoffs and get bounced in the 1st round by the Lakers in 3 or 4 games. I love the Rocks, however, paying Hakeem more than $10 million over 2 years is dumb. I would suggest packaging Cato, Walt, and Bullard for a nice center. I would go after Theo Ratliff (much hustle)or any 7'0" that wants to play D, rebound, and hustle. We have enough shooters and scorers to last through 2006. ------------------
The Cat, Your scenario works (Dream, Mo, Marc) but then we would have the problem of paying Mooch, who will likely return for about 3.5 million or so. I wish we could just dump Cato off on Detroit or Chicago, then none of this would matter as much. ------------------
Cat, you are right on the ball. We talking now, baby, now! This team is going to average 100 and is already better defensively. It is reasonable to expect major noise next year. The major pieces are definitely in place. So pay the man. ------------------
I would suggest packaging Cato, Walt, and Bullard for a nice center. I would too, but the chances of those three landing a nice center are roughly equal to walking outside right now and seeing snow. Some of you need to have more faith in this team. You really do. Adding Eddie Griffin and Terence Morris makes this team extremely talented, and an experienced big man like Dream could make them very dangerous come playoff time. We probably won't win the championship. But when you have a team as talented as this one coming off a 45 win season, you should set your goals higher than development and making the playoffs. To sum it up in two words: I BELIEVE! ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Rox, We have Mooch's rights. All we have to do is hold onto them (680K) until all other free agents are signed (Mo, Dream, Marc) and then we can sign him for any amount up to 4.5 million, in disregard to the cap. Under Dream's current scenario, it is realistic and possible to bring in Mo, Dream, Marc, and Mooch. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
I have a question, if we give Dream the 2 year deal that people are saying they want to give him, how are the Rockets going to sign Mo to a nice contract next year!? If Dream is set to make 7 or 8 million dollars next year how are they going to re-sign Mo considering it would be eating up the cap for the next 2 years? From what I have read Dream doesn't want a 1 year deal. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
Why are you guys arguing about Marc Jackson rebounds? Moses Malone used to pass the ball off the backboard to himself so he could nudge closer for a basket. That is a FGA and a rebound simply by passing to himself. UHHHHH, what does that mean!!! my head gets woozy thinking about it.
whoever dismissed Eddie Griffin as a weakside shot-blocker probably hasn't seen him play at seton hall and hasn't read #1 LA Rockets Fan's summer league recaps. Bam! A Griffin/Dream duo will give the Rockets one of the strongest shotblocking frontcourts in the league. Combine that with all the young legs, long arms and overall quickness of the team, and you have the makings of one hell of a defensive team (blocks, boards, loose balls). Combine that with all of the offensive talent on the club and you have a legitimate contender -- this year. Get on board this freight train now nonbelievers so you can be with me saying, "I told you so" to all the Dream/Griffin/Rocket bashing skeptics. It's going to be so much FUN. ------------------ [This message has been edited by JR (edited July 18, 2001).]
Your top teams is SOOOOOOOO bad. Now explain to me how most of those East teams make it out of the 1st Round in the West. You are way to skewed against Minn, Portland, Phoe and Utah facing really tough competition to be making a valid point. Is the East really known for shotblocking other than against their Centerless-ass Eastern opponents. Can they get all those blocks against the West? Beside...history says the following: Is Ostertag a valid shot blocker? Did the Bulls have one? Did Seattle's finals teams? Did Barkley's finals team? Did Drexlers? Did Laimbeer block shots?
Now before you tell me that Ostertag did get more than 1.1 bpg... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahhahah Yeah, I'm basing my big secret to the universe dreamcasting stat on Ostertag and Shawn Bradley!!
Larry Johnson was an impressive player his first few years in the league with his monster numbers. When Alonzo Mourning came on board for LJ's 2nd season, they made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. So I don't see the point of LJ inflating his stats playing on a 2nd round playoff team along side a 20/10 rookie in Alonzo Mourning. His severe back injury is why he's the player he is today. But before his injury, he was the closet thing to a 2nd Charles Barkley this league has ever seen. And who said Charles Barkley played on bad 76ers teams. My memory seems to remember those 76er teams making the playoffs pretty regularly. Just not advancing very far in the playoffs. And the fact that your team is full of long armed, tall, athletic, quick players, will not make you a good defensive team. Those kind of physical attributes aren't explicit indicators on whether a player is a good defensive player or can contribute towards a good defensive scheme. And a combination of Griffin and Olajuwon will NOT form one of the best shot blocking front lines in the league! ------------------
So there are a few exceptions to the rule...my point is short centers that can't block shots are a dime a dozen. The top C's in this league are the shotblockers, that's why you see teams overpay for the Ostertag's and Cato's of the world. If people want someone like Marc Jackson, we can just sign Pig Miller at a much cheaper price. I don't think you pay a 6'10 guy that can't block shots $5 million to play C for a team that already has plenty of scorers. The only time you pay a guy that can't block shots more than normal is if he can knock down treys, like Laimbeer or Sam Perkins. The Rockets should just go with center by committee until someone decent (like a LaFrentz) is available. Also cp, I thought we were a team, why are you poking holes in my theories, I thought you had my back... ------------------ President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while...
