Biden & Dem Moderation Cannot defeat Trumpism

Huh?

 

So what you said about RBG was only trolling the hardline left?

You are the most pathetic of trolls a beta troll who actually wants people to still like him even when he knows he says vile ****.

 

I said that I criticize Democrats for the argument that one size fits all approach. I don't expect a moderate to run or win in a district like TX 18. But it would be a big mistake to run on the same issues in TX 22.

To win at all levels is less an ideological battle as it is to find what works for each district. The problem that happened to a lot of down ballot Democrats was that they ended up having to address messages such as "Defund the Police" which played very poorly in the suburbs.

You're reading a lot into my post as I didn't mention racism. That said if Trump won 18% of black males, 8% of black women and gained with Latinos do you think that he would've have if Biden had been more progressive? Do you think that more black males would've voted for Biden if he pressed for the Green New Deal?

As others noted Biden won because he built a coalition that was broad based. Your argument amounts that to that the path to victory is actually to be more narrow based on ideologically pure.

 

Yes this is why winning elections at every level is vitally important and this past election emphasizes that.

Often these debates end up with arguments about things like stacking the court or doing away the filibuster. The problem with arguments like that is that it is putting the cart before the horse. There is no chance of changing the number of justices or the Senate rules unless you control the majority. The problem is that rhetoric like "stacking the court" plays poorly in many districts and pushing issues like that make it harder to win the majority.

 

"Defund the Police" was a simplistic message too.

Most issues are complicated. "Medicare for All" and "Free College" sounds simplistic but implementation of it is far more complicated than a slogan. I agree that Democrats have a hard time explaining things and unfortunately our society likes simple messages. "Hope and Change" was incredibly vague yet the Democrats won their biggest victories of the last 20 years with it. That said I'm not sure making more simplistic messages is the way to go.

 

More than anything though the issue with these presumptive power grab talking points is they mostly are driven by Republicans and the media that generally helps Republican talking points about how Dems are "Radical Socialists". When the Democrats are playing defense on these issues, especially the frivolous SOCIALIST issue, they are losing the argument.

I remember a day not too long ago when Democrats used to do what Republicans do and disregard the question and just get what they want to talk about out there just like Bernie does. You could ask Bernie what he thinks about colonizing Mars, and I guarantee you one of the next two sentences with contain the words “single payer health insurance.” That’s what Democrats need to learn to do that they were better at prior.

But your point is so right. The Democrats get so hung up talking about what they would do if they got ALL of the power in DC that the forget that they need to win elections to even sniff half of the legislation they are talking about.

I think 2022 will be decided in the next 8 months before minds are baked in. I don’t think it’ll necessarily be a Biden referendum but I do think “the party” might be on trial a bit. The DNC and party leaders better get serious fast or the country could be in real trouble come 2024 with an election coming up with a smarter more experienced fascistic party held bent on gaming the system for taking power. The Democrats are going to need to keep and grow on every Dem Governorship, Secretary of State seats, state house seats, and maintain the House at a minimum. The Senate of course is the golden goose which would be the important win in our Democracy if that can be won and held going into the most difficult election in our history if it is close and the Republicans have a chance to do what Trump tried to do in a somewhat more legitimate way.

 

Of course you think you did and you also think it would make a difference in the overall scheme of things.

You have yet to actually explain how progressivism can do any better combatting trumpism and ignore the fact that moderation actually did combat trumpism and won both in 2018 and in 20/20.

 

I don't really see the democratic party being in trouble in 2024 mainly because the republicans are still shooting themselves in the foot, especially with this not conceding bullshit, the Biden coalition is tired of that ****, with Trump still threatening to run in 2024 and the amount of republicans still sucking up to him those biden voters are not going anywhere.

The only way the Dem party is in trouble is if the party splits because progressives revolt and a moderate Republican steps into the breach.

I predict you will have 3 factions, hard left progressives, Trumpers and moderate democrats and republicans and I think the moderates will have greater numbers than the other 2.

The progressives need to find someone who can message better and maybe they can consolidate the party.

 

I agree that conservatives are better at messaging than liberals. No death tax, liberals are socialist, pro-life, protecting our country are easier to get behind from a superficial level than Black Lives Matter, defund the police, pro-choice, etc. Even how liberals describe Trump is horrible. Most people don't know what a fascist or an autocrat are.

 

Conservatives are more willing to lie and promote disinformation than Democrats and then every misspeak or mistake by democrats is then used to beat them over the head.

Thats the real difference and I am not so sure I want Democrats to start playing that same game.

I do wish that democrats would stop being on the defensive but then that would take the media to stop stirring **** up, (hillary's email) (stacking the court) (defund the police).

Basically Democrats are held to a much higher standard from within the party and outside.

 

Maybe it's just PTSD after Obama got creamed in the mid terms, and his re-election down ballot. That weakness in the party down ballot is what led to the power that McConnell was able to get to really reshape the countries judicial system, and limit sooooooo much of the needed legislation on many many important issues. So much would be different had the Obama era Dem party been able to hold onto the Senate and House.

And that was before Trumpism infected the party with pure anti Democratic fascism.

So maybe you are right that Dems are technically favored, but the stakes are so high that I think there is no room for error in the mid terms.

 

I'm not talking about substance. I'm talking about pure marketing and slogans. Democrats are stupid at it. Think about "defund the police". Even as person who has an almost unhealthy aversion to the police, thought it sounded crazy. Someone had to explain it to me which is the problem.

Another example is Bernie's "medicare for all". Even though it's a great program, most people's perception of the program is bureaucracy.

 

I agree, what happened in those 2010 mid terms should have been a wake up call but I think Democrats are now realizing the power they have if they actually vote and most of that apathy has left, I know it has with me.

I think the biggest thing is that democrats like myself realize how actually easy it is to vote and with Trump and his minions still stirring **** up democrats will still have reminders of what can happen.

There needs to be more education about the power of state and local elections as well, probably the most important thing heading into 2022.

 

This does not really change my argument because Defund the police was slapped down pretty quickly by all democrats that mattered but republicans had no issues pinning it to everybody and the media kept talking about it.

Defund the police was only used by a small majority of democrats yet it was tied to the whole party the flip side would be tying succession to the entire Republican party, which would be more representative, yet none of that sticks to Republicans.

 

It's still a matter of execution of message and if Democrats can't control the message coming from the left, then by definition they suck at it. The Republicans are better at controlling the message. Most of their slogans come from think tanks and political strategist where the slogans that catch on the left come from politcal novices. It puts Democrats at a disadvantage.

This should even be up for debate. Even the democrat admit they are terrible at messaging. We've had two democrats that were amazing at messaging in the last 40 years and they won the presidency running away. Obama and Clinton.

 

There is no control of the message from the left because there are different factions and with twitter everybody has a voice.

Yes Obama and Clinton were great at messaging but good luck with them being able to get the entire party to speak as one in today's climate.

 

Then Democrats will continue to be at a disadvantage. That is reason why Republicans have more control than their numbers would indicate. They are better organized and have better control over messaging.