1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Attack on Libya imminent?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 17, 2011.

Tags:
  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,736
    Likes Received:
    41,156
    Heheheheh, you would think after 8 years you would have gotten your story straight and settled on a rationale instead of the ol' triple cornocupia of fail.

    The only thing that's certain is that the Iraq war has, after 8 years, a trillion dollars, and hundreds of thousands dead and maimed, not accomplished any of those goals in any meaningful way.

    Congrats on the triple double! You and Chuck Hayes both in one night!
     
  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,648
    Likes Received:
    11,671
    Turns out we are not at war with Libya, this is simply "kinetic military action"

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/03/white-house-libya-fight-not-war-its-kinetic-military-action

     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,779
    Likes Received:
    20,435
    This is crazy. Ever since the first gulf war our policy towards Iraq was regime change. All through the Clinton administration, and the first year of the Bush administration there was a no fly zone in effect over Iraq.

    Yet people didn't seem to all be getting their panties in a wad claiming we were really at war, and the various Presidents were being hypocritical etc. It was understood that wanting a ruler gone while enforcing a no-fly zone doesn't equal "we're really at war" yet somehow now people are acting like chickens with their heads cut off.
     
  4. esteban

    esteban Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Likes Received:
    59
    You lefties are seeing your own creation melting down in front of your very eyes.

    It was not a good idea to prop up this community organizer/agitator to be our president. A huge fraud is committed against the American people.

    I hope and pray we will undo the damages in 2012!
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,441
    Likes Received:
    11,699
    Thanks for the intellect and knowledge you add to this discussion.
     
  6. thumbs

    thumbs Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    Esteban's frustration was not well spoken, but I understand his unhappiness with the Obama administration. Supporting Obama at present is like conservatives and liberals playing a game of twister. Nobody knows where their feet and hands should go to achieve a proper stance. There are so many Mideast policy incongruities and positional irregularities that the American public is thoroughly confused -- and frustrated. It surely looks like Brer Fox now has two hands and one foot stuck in the Tar Baby.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    If the people of Libya and the Middle East view this as a French operation that is good for us.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    We finally have leadership that actually acknowledges the complexities of the region.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42247045/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

    Turkish official: NATO to take Libya command
    As Gadhafi's forces continue attack, coalition aims to stop flow of weapons, mercenaries

    ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey's foreign minister said Thursday that NATO would take command of the military operation over Libya. Turkey's state-run TV quoted the foreign minister as saying Turkey's demands have been met.

    "Our demands have been met on Libya, the operation will be handed over to NATO," Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu was quoted as saying on TRT television.

    Earlier, Turkey's parliament authorized the government to participate in the military operations in Libya, including enforcing the no-fly zone. Turkey's prime minister and Cabinet now have the green light to decide whether the country will participate in the no-fly zone operation.

    NATO needs the approval of all 28 of its members to take over military command of the operation, and Turkey had been a stumbling block.

    Ankara had pressed for NATO to have sole control of Libya operations, but had attached conditions, saying it did not want to see it conducting offensive operations that could harm civilians or to be in charge of enforcing a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone while coalition planes are bombing Libyan forces.

    More at link.
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    smart diplomacy

    Rebel Commander in Libya Fought Against U.S. in Afghanistan

    On his own admission, rebel leader Abdul-Hakim al-Hasadi fought American troops in Afghanistan and recruited Libyans to fight American troops in Iraq.

    Shortly after unrest broke out in eastern Libya in mid-February, reports emerged that an “Islamic Emirate” had been declared in the eastern Libyan town of Darnah and that, furthermore, the alleged head of that Emirate, Abdul-Hakim al-Hasadi, was a former detainee at the American prison camp in Guantánamo. The reports, which originated from Libyan government sources, were largely ignored or dismissed in the Western media.

    Now, however, al-Hasadi has admitted in an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore that he fought against American forces in Afghanistan. (Hat-tip: Thomas Joscelyn at the Weekly Standard.) Al-Hasadi says that he is the person responsible for the defense of Darnah — not the town’s “Emir.” In a previous interview with Canada’s Globe and Mail, he claimed to have a force of about 1,000 men and to have commanded rebel units in battles around the town of Bin Jawad.

    “I have never been at Guantánamo,” al-Hasadi explained to Il Sole 24 Ore. “I was captured in 2002 in Peshawar in Pakistan, while I was returning from Afghanistan where I fought against the foreign invasion. I was turned over to the Americans, detained for a few months in Islamabad, then turned over to Libya and released from prison in 2008.”

    Al-Hasadi’s account is largely confirmed by investigations conducted by Praveen Swami, the diplomatic editor of the British daily The Telegraph. Swami originally wrote about al-Hasadi’s background in the Afghan jihad in a March 21 column. In response to a query from the present author, Swami was able to obtain confirmation of al-Hasadi’s arrest and transfer to Libya from what he describes as a “senior source” in the Afghan government.

    According to a separate UK intelligence source contacted by Swami, al-Hasadi was released by the Libyan government as part of a deal that was struck with the al-Qaeda-affiliated Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIGF). The LIGF has long opposed the rule of Muammar al-Gaddafi in Libya.

    On February 25, al-Hasadi had issued an ambiguous statement claiming that he had been a “political prisoner” and accusing the “Dictator Gaddafi” of spreading “lies.” Al-Jazeera provides an English translation of the statement here. (Scroll down to “12:46pm”.) A video of al-Hasadi reading his statement is available here.

    In his more recent remarks to Il Sole 24 Ore, al-Hasadi admits not only to fighting against U.S. troops in Afghanistan, but also to recruiting Libyans to fight against American forces in Iraq. As noted in my earlier PJM report here, captured al-Qaeda personnel records show that al-Hasadi’s hometown of Darnah sent more foreign fighters to fight with al-Qaeda in Iraq than any other foreign city or town and “far and away the largest per capita number of fighters.” Al-Hasadi told Il Sole 24 Ore that he personally recruited “around 25” Libyans to fight in Iraq. “Some have come back and today are on the front at Ajdabiya,” al-Hasadi explained, “They are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists.” “The members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader,” al-Hasadi added.

    The revelations about al-Hasadi’s involvement in the anti-American jihad are particularly troubling in light of clear evidence that Western forces are coordinating their attacks on Libyan government targets with rebel forces.

    Reporting from the outskirts of Ajdabiya yesterday, Antoine Estève of the French news channel i-Télé noted that just “minutes” after rebel positions had been hit by artillery fire from Libyan government forces, the Libyan government positions were then bombarded by coalition aircraft. (Estève’s report can be viewed here.) In a March 19 dispatch from Benghazi for the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, correspondent Lorenzo Cremonesi cites rebel leaders as saying that they were given the opportunity to provide NATO with a map indicating enemy targets that they wanted bombed.
     
  12. Rumblemintz

    Rumblemintz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    15
    Leadership is something that is obviously been lacking with this guy. He'll go down as Jimmy C #2.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,008
    Likes Received:
    22,415
    Turkey is awesome. That is a much better outcome. NATO should have taken command from the start, but I understand there were time constraints and something had to be done.
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    That might be better than going down as GW Bush 2. I have always been a reluctant Obama supporter but honestly this is about the best US military intervention we've had in decades. We have UNSC backing, we have a commitment that is actually being backed by our allies, heck we have the Arab league on board, and the perception isn't that this is a unilateral US action. This is about the best we can get with any action in the Mideast.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    So then should we be doing nothing or supporting Gadaffi?
     
  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,441
    Likes Received:
    11,699
    He won't answer because however it turns out, he can blame Obama one way or the other. This is why he often doesn't comment when posting stuff. For him, it isn't a matter or what's right or wrong, just how much you can criticize Obama and avoid blaming Republicans.
     
    2 people like this.
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,166
    Likes Received:
    48,318
    I suspect as much but I want to give him the chance to answer the question directly.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,758
    Likes Received:
    3,697
    the sad part is the guy didn't make it to gitmo yet innocent people do
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,779
    Likes Received:
    20,435
    read his posts in this thread he keeps going back and forth between doing more and doing less or not doing anything. He just flip flops whichever way he can in order to bash our commander and chief.
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    i miss poppy

    In six weeks, Obama fails miserably at what Bush père did so very well in one

    We're entering the sixth week of the Libyan crisis, and someone attempting to defend President Obama's feckless handling of it might point out, correctly, that there was very much an element of unexpected emergency created by Kadafi's decision to start shooting his own citizens when they started protesting on February 15th. So it's only fair to judge President Obama's reaction in that context. Certainly it takes time to consult allies, to nudge into motion giant bureaucratic agencies like the U.N. or even multi-national military ones NATO, and to formulate a clear national and international position with clear goals unequivocally communicated to friend and foe alike.

    So let's consider another recent (in historical terms) and unexpected emergency in the Middle East — Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait on August 2, 1990, which came as an utter surprise to the entire world, and America's response, which was called "Operation Desert Shield."

    In less than one week — by August 8, 1990 — Pres. George H.W. Bush had already gotten resolutions from the U.N. and the Arab League comdemning the invasion, along with U.N. Security Council Resolutions establishing economic sanctions and authorizing a blockade of Iraq to enforce them. He had exhausted both formal and back-channel negotiations seeking a voluntary Iraqi pull-back. He had started the deployment of American air and ground forces to defensive positions in Saudi Arabia (which in turn required the most delicate of negotiations to reconcile those troops' presence with the Saudis' keen sensitivities as guardians of Islam's most holy cities). He had consulted with both parties' leaders in Congress to their general satisfaction — even though he wasn't (yet) sending troops or even aircraft into combat. (Eventually he'd come back to them for, and win, a formal Congressional vote authorizing that.)

    And in a straight-forward but powerful speech to America and the world on the evening of August 8, he laid out exactly what he had done, was doing, and promised to do about Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

    It was an expanded version of the same message he'd had since his very first public statements on the crisis: "This will not stand." No bluster, nothing grand, and certainly no diplomatic double-speak, but just the kind of grim and absolutely credible determination the American men of his generation were known for.

    It was as graceful and swift and deft and brilliant an exercise in international diplomacy as this planet has ever seen. It was a symphonic ballet of practical, urgent diplomacy — with Jim Baker and Bush both working the phones, and Bush jotting hand-written notes to world leaders he'd known and dealt with for decades. It was followed up with sustained performance throughout the fall and into what eventually became Operation Desert Storm in 1991 — a diplomatic accomplishment so total that there were even Syrian and Egyptian tanks helping us and the Brits and the French (and a bunch of other countries) liberate Kuwait.

    Throughout, Pres. Bush-41 was gracious and tactful in sharing credit with all of our allies, some of whom were even persuaded to kick in for some of the cost! But never, ever, did he shrink from America's essential role, nor pretend that we could fool the rest of the world into thinking anyone else could replace us in it.

    Which is to say:

    George H.W. Bush's performance in beginning Desert Shield had almost nothing in common with Barack Obama's performance now. And that's unfortunate for the latter — and the country.
     

Share This Page