1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Attack on Libya imminent?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 17, 2011.

Tags:
  1. CheezeyBoy22

    CheezeyBoy22 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,139
    Likes Received:
    2,521

    I'm getting tired of these assh0les disrespecting our flag and our Country.
     
  2. MiddleMan

    MiddleMan Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    270
    They should get their passports revoked from ever stepping in American soil.
     
  3. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,542
    Likes Received:
    7,752
    Aren't Brazilians of Portugese descent? Portugese are fair-skinned.
     
  4. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,542
    Likes Received:
    7,752
    US has a condescending attitude in politics and are always taking foreign matters into their own hands. Regardless of whether it is needed or not.

    Perspective-wise outside of the country, we look like a bunch of assholes.
     
  5. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    3,389
    That's like saying Indians are of British descent. And believe me I dont look like someone from England. Brazil was ruled by Portugal but that's about it.

    As to that picture I dont really have an opinion. The guy kicking the flag is a douchebag but there are far more important things to whine about than that.
     
  6. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    35,424
    Likes Received:
    22,560
    that guy looks about as American as he does Brazilian. There is no way of telling from that pic
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Could be. Who knows. He looks a lot more Brazilian in the picture of his arrest. Looked more like an Irish redhead in the first picture.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #187 AroundTheWorld, Mar 21, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  8. Mr. Brightside

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    18,964
    Likes Received:
    2,147





    [​IMG]
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,779
    Likes Received:
    20,435
    By far the MVP (most valuable Poster) in this thread goes to basso. Early in the thread he's upset because Obama wasn't enacting a no-fly zone. Now he's griping about the fact that Obama and the UN are enacting a no-fly zone.

    This is one thread over the course of days.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,736
    Likes Received:
    41,156
    It's clear that a lot of people in this thread have never been to Brazil or even seen movies or television shows with Brazilians in them. Which is about the most interesting thing about it.
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    then:

    What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.​


    we are all cowboys, now:

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="960" height="750" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wcW_Ygs6hm0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  12. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,598
    Likes Received:
    7,981
    Holy crap, is anybody really stupid enough to believe that President Obama spent time pouring over his bracket? Do you really not understand public relations? This bracket was a stunt put together by ESPN; they likely have a team, had a chat with Obama and filmed the segment.

    This is America: everybody hates everybody because they're so susceptible to every. little. thing.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,051
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    :confused:

    India: 72% Indo-Aryan, 25% Dravidian, 3% Other.

    Brazil: 54% White, 39% Mulatto, 8% Other.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

    It seems like the chance a person would look European in Brazil is several orders of magnitude greater than it'd be in India.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Even more than the red-looking hair, I was going by how the guy is dressed. That clothing style (cargo pants, base cap, hi-top shoes, tennis socks) looks very American. But it doesn't really matter, does it.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,050
    Likes Received:
    3,578
    The best analysis of the pros and cons of US/ International intervention in Libya.

    Like the author I am deeply conflicted and could easily be persuaded to not back the intervention. 1) It is unconsitutional and it is not a good idea to have presidents just decide to get us into wars without congress approving. 2) Despite the theoretical framework that justifies intervention to prevent genocide as the article points out, the end results are seldom worth it.
    *********
    Libya No-Fly Zone: The Problems With Interventionism
    Conceptually, humanitarian intervention is a rather beautiful thing. State sovereignty had been seen as absolute for 350 years, but then the universal human rights regime emerged and the idea took hold that a state's responsibility to defend its people trumped its right to territorial sovereignty. When a state massacres its people rather than protecting them, the human family, working through broadly legitimate international institutions, would intervene, militarily if need be, to spare the vulnerable. This has become known as the "responsibility to protect," and you can read all about it here (PDF).

    As one who believes in this principle, I can't say that I "oppose" the no-fly zone established over Libya. The country offers a rather clear-cut example of a despotic government poised to massacre thousands of its own, and here is the international community responding forcefully to spare their lives. Perhaps it will be a text-book example of the "responsibility to protect" in action.

    I imagine that most of those who "oppose" the action would like nothing more than to have their skepticism be proven to be unfounded.

    At the same time, there is every reason to be deeply cynical about the prospects of success. Because while the principles underlying humanitarian intervention are well developed, the institutions charged with implementing them are certainly not.
    For those of us who have long argued to develop those institutions more fully, this no-fly zone creates distinctly mixed feelings. Under the circumstances, doing nothing would not only be profoundly irresponsible, it would also violate our core belief in the imperative of respecting essential human rights. Yet, having studied our history, we also know that the potential for unintended consequences -- for a bad situation to be turned into something worse -- are real, and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, or due to wishful thinking.

    Books have been written about the challenges of humanitarian intervention, but here's a very quick-and-dirty summary of three of the most daunting.

    1) Mission creep
    I wrote yesterday that limited interventions -- with promises that the goals will be limited and, in the case of no-fly zones and naval embargoes, that no ground troops will be deployed -- are like a "gateway drug" leading all-too-easily to expanded conflict. This is an institutional reality -- the Security Council states are now invested in this conflict, but there is no reason to be confident Gaddhafi's regime will fall quickly. As the saying goes: "in for a penny, in for a pound" -- having entered the conflict, the temptation to escalate our involvement -- to add "regime change" and "state-building" to the agenda -- is going to be difficult for the Security Council to resist.

    You can go through the history of multilateral interventions -- from Korea through Somalia (but not really in Rwanda!) -- and what you'll find in virtually every case is not a single Security Council resolution authorizing the use of force, but a series of them authorizing ever-greater military involvement in the conflict. This reality cannot be ignored.

    2) Insufficient resources
    If the mission creeps -- or, if it drags on -- then history also suggests that we're likely to end up with the worst of both worlds: a broad mandate coupled with insufficient resources to do the job right.

    This is almost always the case in the UN system, which has no independent source of funding and must rely on the dues and pledges of its member states to undertake any action. It's the same whether you want to talk about humanitarian intervention or relief from famine, drought or natural disaster. At the beginning, with shocking footage of rebel forces being massacred, children starving or tsunamis hitting the beach flashing across the world's TV screens, it's easy to commit all kinds of resources to help. But these actions are costly, and those resources have to be authorized by domestic legislatures. And it's not just the money at stake -- national governments also have to deal with all manner of domestic and international political calculations.

    In the case of military interventions, under-funding can lead to disastrous results, with the most obvious example being the horrific failure of UNAMIR leading up to and during the Rwanda Genocide.

    3) Politicization
    Finally, the nature of the UN decision-making process itself is a huge challenge to these kinds of interventions being viewed as legitimate. Central to the "responsibility to protect" concept is that it is based on an imperative to uphold certain basic human rights, and not on international political (or economic) considerations. So the entire venture rests on the decision of when and where to intervene being made in some relatively apolitical fashion. In the real world, of course, given that the power of the Security Council, and thus the entire United Nations system, rests in the hands of the 5 permanent, veto-wielding members -- the most powerful states, each with its own internal and external politics to manage -- this is impossible to achieve.

    That an intervention be widely perceived as legitimate is not just some abstract academic issue. Combatants are far less likely to engage in the political process that must always accompany such actions if they view them as prettied-up acts of neo-colonialism or cover for other, more powerful states' agendas.

    So, again, many who oppose -- or are at least skeptical of humanitarian intervention -- support it in theory, and have long argued for reforms that might address these issues.

    Security Council reform -- gradually phasing out the veto power enjoyed by "permanent 5," or providing a mechanism to override a veto -- has been a long-time goal of human rights activists. But, as you might imagine, the P-5 have fought it tooth-and-nail.

    There have also long been calls for a dedicated and independent UN intervention force, which wouldn't rest on the ad-hoc pledges of UN member states. Similarly, reformers have long argued that an independent funding mechanism for UN actions -- both military and humanitarian -- must be created through some variation of the "Lula Fund" or "Tobin tax."

    A final but important note: anyone who holds an idealized view of "clean" and "precise" modern warfare is simply deluded. As of this writing, there are reports of US cruise missiles being fired at targets in densely packed Tripoli, and French fighters engaging "regime tanks" on the ground. Despite being widely portrayed by the media as a UN air patrol designed to deny the regime's forces the capacity to wipe out their enemies from above, Western powers are dropping munitions on Libya. Make no mistake: innocents will die. There will be "collateral damage" -- it's the nature of the game, and that can't be ignored.

    Rather than "opposing the no-fly zone," I find myself deeply conflicted. Hopefully, it will work exactly as promised -- lives will be spared, opposition forces will be emboldened and the Libyan regime will crumble under the pressure of international isolation. Hopefully, the skeptics among us will be proven wrong.

    But it's important to understand that the history of these adventures, no matter how well intentioned, doesn't provide much cause for optimism. And one doesn't have to be an "isolationist" to see that.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandview...-fly_zone:_the_problems_with_interventionism/
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    [​IMG]
     
  18. DumDaDumDum

    DumDaDumDum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    20
    [​IMG]
     
  19. MiddleMan

    MiddleMan Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    270
    Yes missed the start of the great recession and high unemployement.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,736
    Likes Received:
    41,156
    As I said before, i find the "brazilians can't have light hair!" misconception to be about the most riveting thing in this thread

    Tiago Splitter says hi, as does Anderson Varejao, Carrot from Cidade de Deus, and millions of others.
     

Share This Page